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Dr. Ed Newton is the Lead Pastor of Community Bible Church in San Antonio, TX. He is a husband and dad of four who boldly follows Jesus. We discuss the intersection of our faith, politics, and The Church. He brings a theological perspective to this conversation, provides real-life cultural examples, and leaves us with a practical challenge at the end.
Dr. Ed Newton is the Lead Pastor of Community Bible Church in San Antonio, TX. He is a husband and dad of four who boldly follows Jesus. We discuss the intersection of our faith, politics, and The Church. He brings a theological perspective to this conversation, provides real-life cultural examples, and leaves us with a practical challenge at the end.
Dr. Ed Newton is the lead pastor of Community Bible Church in San Antonio, Texas a 27,000-member multigenerational, multicultural congregation of disciple-makers who seek to initiate and celebrate life change in Jesus’ name. A pastor, speaker, and leader with an intentional burden to speak into the capital “C” church towards revival, leadership, evangelism, discipleship, missional living. He is also the author of several books. Dr. Newton holds multiple degrees, including a Bachelor of Science in Church Ministries from Clearwater Christian College, Clearwater, Florida, a Master’s in Religious Education from Mid-America Baptist Theological Seminary in Memphis, Tennessee, a Master’s in Divinity, and a Doctorate of Ministry in Pulpit Communication from Trinity Theological Seminary in Newburgh, Indiana. Dr. Newton, his wife Stephanie, and their four children have made their home in culturally vibrant San Antonio, where they seek to lead a generation of people to hear God’s voice and respond in obedience.
Transcription is done by an AI software. While technology is an incredible tool to automate this process, there will be misspellings and typos that might accompany it. Please keep that in mind as you work through it.
Speaker 1:
Welcome to the Next Talk podcast. We are passionate about keeping kids safe in an overexposed world. Next Talk families. We have a special treat today Pastor Ed Newton.
Speaker 2:
Hey, mandy, thank you so much for allowing me to be on your show.
Speaker 1:
Well, we love what you’re doing. You have just been preaching some stuff, which has been great. Your trending series, lots of good stuff to create conversation at home with our kids. I just appreciate you.
Speaker 2:
Well, first of all, thank you for your patience. I think you’ve been trying to get this podcast for a while and I want you to know I’ve not been dodging you I just need you to hear me say that and your amazing followers. I’ve not been dodging you, I promise you. But thank you for your patience and persistence.
Speaker 1:
I know you’re a busy guy and I love what you’re doing. You are the lead pastor of Community Bible Church in San Antonio, and how long have you been there now? How long?
Speaker 2:
has it been Nine years in January? Can you believe that Nine years in?
Speaker 1:
January.
Speaker 2:
I know.
Speaker 1:
And tell us about your family, because you’ve got an amazing family.
Speaker 2:
Yeah, we’re blessed. My wife and I have been married 26 years. Her name is Stephanie, my college sweetheart, and we have four children London, lola, liv and Lawson.
Speaker 1:
And you’re moving into a season that Matt and I are in, that is, I mean, we’re looking at the empty nest. In a couple of years we got one left in high school right Each of us, I think.
Speaker 2:
I’m so glad you brought this up, because we got one left in high school too and I have. This is not a dig at anybody, but I think there’s a moment where we have blessed our children with go, be, do, fulfill all that God’s put in your heart. No, mom and dad are cheering for you, and if you want to come home ever so often, that’d be great, but we love being married and being in this house by ourselves.
Speaker 1:
I am so glad that you said that, because Matt and I there’s almost like a spirit of guilt sometimes.
Speaker 2:
I know, when I’m in conversations with other families that are just like it’s been the valley of depression because their kid has gone off to school, and I get it. It was tears, it was boo-hoo, snot-slobber moment. But then I’m hanging out with Steph in our house and I’m like babe, I love this. Stephanie, I’m all about this. And Lawson, who’s a 10th grader, he’s like Dad, this is weird. It’s just me, you and mom. I was like I know, and one day it’ll just be me and mom and we love it.
Speaker 1:
Us too, we’re in the same situation. Family dinners have now become sports talks, though, so my son is always saying, mom, you’re such a casual because I don’t know all the stuff that’s going on with the NFL and NBA.
Speaker 2:
Well, you’re one of the coolest people I know, mandy, I promise you that.
Speaker 1:
Well, my son doesn’t think so it’s just that season, I guess, that I’m in Today I really want to talk about I’ve had a show on my heart this intersection of our faith and politics and church, and how do I talk to our kids about it, and I think it’s just a really important thing. So I’m going to start off with just the first question I’ve got, and you tell me we’ll just take this as a candid conversation here. Okay, First of all, do you think some Christians have gotten too political?
Speaker 2:
I’m going to base that question upon the fact of their loyalty seems as if it’s to a candidate, and I think, for me personally, christians that get too political. I don’t think we could dodge politics as who we are, as Christ followers. Jesus said it. He said render unto Caesar what belongs to Caesar and render unto God what belongs to God. And so you watch Jesus as he walks around. For three and a half years of a public ministry and 33 years on this earth. There’s not a chance where, especially in a Roman empire this is what most people don’t understand Jesus was alive, walking in a day in which there was an actual dictator. We’re talking about killing Christians post Jesus. So as we talk about operating as Christians in a post-modern reality where people don’t believe in absolute truth, and yet this seems as if it’s coming from the direction of political conversations, this is what this is about. As we talk about democracy, first and foremost, let me just say this out loud I am grateful to live in the United States of America. I’m going to go ahead and say this right now it is a sacred privilege to live in the United States of America. I’m proud of our country in regards to the steps it has taken towards being what it’s been deemed to be. We’re a Christian nation that was founded upon Judeo-Christian principles. We’re not proud of our past in regards to the birth of our nation being founded out of slavery, and I pray, in Jesus’ name, that God would break down every barrier of racism. But I also believe that, in the process of our founding fathers, with an effort of looking towards God, believing that we could live how God has called us to be, as a nation united under God, I don’t think we could actually embrace this question to the level that we need to embrace this question unless we understand that we are called at some level to be political. I don’t know another way to answer that question. We cannot be blinded or even deaf unto the reality of the political conversation. We have to have this because of the fact that we have been placed Think about this God, in his sovereignty, chose for us to live in the United States of America, not just to exist in a land, but contribute to a nation.
Speaker 2:
So how do we actually become citizens, especially in a kingdom of God, in a nation that hopes to maybe one day come back to God? How do we live in a nation and not be engaged in these conversations and I understand the reason why they’re polarizing. They’re divisive and the way that our nation is founded in regards to a Republican party and a Democratic party and an independent party is always gonna serve as this cosmic collision of ideas and ideology. But there’s gotta be a day where we debate and discuss and not demonize people. Can we actually have conversations about value systems and beliefs and what we see in the future, instead of writing people off? And that’s where this is going. And I think the reason why people have just said, hey, listen, you’re too political is because coworkers, classmates, family are literally the shrapnel of relationships. Let me just say this, manny, why am I going to let a man or a woman in politics I don’t know divide me from people I do know and I actually genuinely love.
Speaker 1:
That’s a word.
Speaker 2:
You see what I’m saying. I’m going to let people I don’t even know determine who I should be with and should not be with because of political views. The kingdom of God is bigger than that, and I would just say we have to have a political understanding of what’s going on in the world. We can’t bury our head in the sand and act as if this is not happening, because we actually have a God-given responsibility to pray for our leadership, as the scriptures would say, to exercise the right to vote. It’s a sacred privilege. Men and women died in our country for democracy.
Speaker 2:
So when we talk about all the things that are wrong about America not been to China, but I’ve heard a lot about China, I’ve heard a lot about Russia, I’ve heard a lot about Venezuela and other places where there’s a dictatorship I’m going. That doesn’t work, doesn’t work. So for me, I think it’s a conversation that we have to understand. Is there extremes? Absolutely there’s full-blown extremes, and I’ll tell you where the extreme is, and I’m just speaking to the Christian cause. If my hope is in a vote box, then my hope is in the wrong place. My hope is in the cross of Calvary and an empty tomb.
Speaker 2:
Jesus is King and we should have a biblical worldview and hopefully we can get to that conversation because politics are politics, but they are based upon value systems, they’re based upon belief systems and if we don’t have a biblical worldview, then we’re allowing the ideology of men and women who do not have a framework of who God is to make decisions on how the law of the land should operate, and a Christian who forfeits that opportunity to speak into this place. Oh man, let me say this what we’re doing right now is Christians are forfeiting their voice in sectors and vectors of influential spaces in society movies, music, media, culture and politics because of the fact that we’re like I don’t want to be political, somebody’s got to be political, somebody’s got to step in that space and say thus sayeth the Lord Amen, Amen.
Speaker 1:
I loved what you said. I think acknowledging the extremes with our kids like this cannot become an idol. We cannot put the trust in a candidate that God is bigger than that. I think that’s a great opening conversation with kids because we’re acknowledging there are extreme and you’re probably hearing that more on social media than the people in real life that we need to talk openly about, about belief system, and so I think that’s so good. But I do want to dive into this how you said we have to get political, like this intersection of political and culture, Like we can’t just be silenced on this biblical worldview that we have and so we’re speaking into these issues and then we’re told we’re being political, even though it’s an actual biblical situation that we need to talk about and raise our kids and disciple our kids on.
Speaker 2:
Absolutely, and, Mandy, you said it better than I can say it. But the church. Here’s the deal. I’m not becoming political, I’m choosing to be spiritual when the government has chosen to step outside of what we would refer to as separation of church and state. And the reason why separation of church and state existed is because of America coming out of the West, where there was Pope and King. So in a pope and king reality there had to be a separation of power in that space. But it doesn’t mean that those lines don’t cross. It was just in regards to political decision making. So if the pope and king are one person, then it’s an interesting dynamic that there is a king who maybe uses improper spirituality to make decisions for a nation, and so there’s a balance of power if we could use this. And so the separation of that oftentimes gets polarized as well.
Speaker 2:
Separation of church and state. We can’t talk about God in our schools. We can’t talk about God in the political spaces. The answer to that? I don’t think that’s what separation of church and state was about originally. I think that’s what it’s become, but I think it’s in regards to a balance of power that the priest and king cannot be the same person. There has to be an understanding, and this is what Proverbs would say surround yourself with godly wisdom, and so there’s accountability in that. I think that was the original idea of this. So, coming out of that, maybe there was an idea of America going hey, we got to separate this idea of if there’s a king that doesn’t walk with God but yet says that these are God things and that’s not really God things, but he’s using God as a power, he’s using God as a guilt reality upon people, then we got to have a balance in this.
Speaker 2:
That’s a whole nother conversation of deep diving in regards to our nation’s founding, but here’s the principle that you just spoke to, the reason why I think we have to become political. I’m not becoming more political, I’m just choosing to address the fact that our government has tried to become spiritual, but it’s misguided spirituality. So if pulpits and people don’t address this, then here’s what’s happening. Then we’re allowing the government sectors of today to speak to spirituality unchecked. So if we go but here’s what’s happened, and I’ve been accused of this, Pastor Ed, you’re so political when you talk about pro-life. You’re so political as we’re going to talk about the border here in a couple of weeks.
Speaker 2:
Specifically, what does that look like, with the church’s responsibility Not choosing? Here’s the deal. My conversation is not political. My conversation is spiritual.
Speaker 2:
But because the government has chosen to make political things and try to make them spiritual things, it’s my role and responsibility as a pastor and I believe it’s Christian’s roles to speak unto the subject matter and correct it and check it and not ignore it. So when the government sectors that be today choose to speak to gender marriage, when they speak to when life begins or when life can be taken, those aren’t political conversations, those are biblical conversations and it’s my role and responsibility to correct them. So the church has not become more political. The church is actually more spiritual by speaking against the organization of the government that would choose to speak to the spirituality and then try to put law and order around it when it’s misguided realities of spirituality. So the White House and the government sectors of our states and our counties, et cetera, when they choose to legislate morality, the church has to speak up. People have to speak up because we have a biblical worldview. So I’m not becoming more political. I’m actually becoming more spiritual when I choose to address these issues.
Speaker 1:
Well, and I think for far too long, satan has used this separation of church and state. I loved how you explained that history there has used that to suppress us feeling like we can talk about God in a lot of different sectors, like you mentioned earlier. You know, like our kids at school, can we do this? Is this okay? I don’t want to ruffle the feathers, but then other worldviews are very vocal and so then you have a suppressed biblical worldview because we’re scared to get political but everyone else is in speaking into these cultural issues.
Speaker 2:
No, you’re absolutely right. And so now I remember when I was a senior in high school, I asked to pray at my graduation. I just became a Christian, and this is in 1994. And I asked to pray at my graduation. I just got saved. I was passionate about my faith. I asked the principal Ms Cunningham was her name and I said, ma’am, could I pray at the graduation, just to pray a prayer over the graduating class? She said no, that could be offensive. So we’ll let you pray at the baccalaureate. That’s where we do those things. So it’s interesting. This is not a new issue, this is an old this things. So it’s interesting. You know where? This is not a new issue, this is an old, this, this same issue. It’s interesting that we are, I’ve been in public places where I’ve been told you can’t pray in the name of Jesus.
Speaker 2:
But you can pray. You just can’t pray in the name of Jesus. But who are we praying to? But it’s so interesting. Nobody will ever say that you can’t pray in the name of Buddha, you can’t pray in the name of Muhammad, you can’t pray in the name of Confucius, you can’t pray in Mary Baker, eddy of Scientology. I mean, nobody ever says you can’t pray in those names, it’s just always the name Jesus.
Speaker 2:
I mean, I’m about to preach a message on the infiltration of the occult and demonic warfare in our songs, movies and video games. Demonic warfare in our songs, movies and video games. And I have been overwhelmed by the reality of the fact of who is all of this making a mockery out of. No other religion, no other religion is mocked in this demonic, satanic, occultish type portray in videos and music, except Jesus. Who are they targeting? They’re not targeting Muhammad, it’s Jesus. So, which, by the way, should be an indicator to anybody that watches right now and goes oh, I never thought of it like that. Because Jesus is King. That’s why the demons of hell are aimed at Jesus and no other religious leader.
Speaker 1:
Well, what’s the Bible verse? I think it’s in John. I may be misquoting it, but it’s like the world will hate you because it hated me first. Yeah, absolutely Right, absolutely I mean we see that we feel that as Christians. I mean I feel it when we have to tackle tough cultural issues.
Speaker 2:
Absolutely.
Speaker 1:
So I think that was very, very well put. Okay, so there’s this idea out there in culture and I’ve heard it before and it’s one of the things that you know we’ve talked to our own kids about. Christians are trying to influence laws, but not everyone is a Christian.
Speaker 2:
What would you?
Speaker 1:
say to that what would you say to that? That um statement yeah, it’s.
Speaker 2:
It’s an interesting reality, though you may not be a follower of jesus concerning christianity here, here’s where this is so, uh, it’s a fundamental issue. We’re all made in the image of god. We’re it’s a mago day. We’re image bearers genesis 26 to 27. Let us make man in our image and in our likeness. They are made so male and female. So that clarifies gender male and female. There’s no other gender. There’s male and female. Marriage is between man and woman, but when we talk about the reality of whether we’re a follower of Jesus or not, a follower of Jesus we have been given. Ecclesiastes 3.11 says God has placed eternity in our heart. We also know, in Romans, chapter one, he has written his commandments on our heart, which means, even if you’re not a follower of Jesus, you know murder is wrong, you know stealing is wrong, because we have a moral compass. Now that moral compass, I think, has been broken and also our hearts are seared, as the book of Romans says, which means we’ve lost sensitivity to what’s right and what’s wrong because of the of the fact that we’re so over inundated by what’s wrong in society. So what’s wrong is now right and what’s right is now wrong, and so there’s no absolute truth, there’s no relativism. So, when we talk about what, the question that you’re asking is is the, the laws that are put into society, whether Christian or not Christian is because they’re moral laws. They’re not, so to speak, christian laws. They’re moral laws Like love God, love people. We’re like well, I don’t believe in God. Well, because we’re all image bearers of God, then we understand that there’s value and worth because we bear the image of God. So my value is not based upon where I live, my value is not based upon what I drive, my value is not based upon my skin color. My value is based upon the fact that I’m an image bearer of God, no matter what, every tribe, every tongue, every nation, every people group. So, whether you’re a follower of God or not a follower of God, we know the difference between right and wrong, and these laws are about right and wrong, not about making people Christians. It’s about what’s right that God has put into the moral fabric of who we are, and that’s a simple summary of that is the 10 commandments. The 10 commandments are just simply what does this look like? To love God and love people? Well, you go, I don’t love God. Well then, you could see that, because we’re all made in the image of God, then we should treat each other a certain way. But here’s what’s happening If we don’t understand who God is and the value in which God has given us, then where do we find our value from?
Speaker 2:
And I think this is the issue of the day. So a baby that’s alive, and some would say that’s not a baby, but life begins at conception. So for us, when we talk about just in utero, well, it’s a fetus, so it’s not a life. So what we do is we degrade life. So what happens is society begins to determine what value is. So trees and animals have more rights than children. But if you don’t have a value of who humanity is in the eyes of God, then you’re going to lower the value of humanity, which means that man becomes the elevator of other things in life that are determined of more value Animals, plants, the planet, etc. More than people, more than people. So when man becomes God and we choose to rule and reign in our own moral superiority and our hearts are broken and desperately wicked, then we’re going to create laws that in essence serve humanity, and humanism is ruling the day. Whatever feels good, do it.
Speaker 2:
Here’s something interesting we live in a world that doesn’t believe in absolute truth. So what’s true for you may not be true for me, but because of the fact that you have your own truth and I got my own truth, so you can have your truth and I can have my truth, and we can just both be right. Well, that doesn’t work. Somebody’s got to be wrong. The legal term is called the law of non-contradiction. We both can’t be right. Some of one of us has got to be wrong. So if you’re saying this is blue and I’m saying this is green, we both can’t be right. Somebody’s right. But what is the determining factor? What makes that decision? Is it not the moral reality of what god has determined? I’m not talking about colors, but I’m just talking about the value system of the world. So if we don’t live in a world that that believes in absolute truth, then here’s the question who determines that truth?
Speaker 2:
Don’t live in a world that believes in absolute truth, then here’s the question who determines that truth, feelings, experience, your perspective and a value system? But if that’s not rooted in God, then guess what happens? Then everybody has their own interpretation of what’s right and wrong, and I’m going to just say this. That’s cute and it sounds really accepting and loving. Until somebody gets murdered, somebody gets raped, somebody gets their stuff stolen, then what do you use to hold somebody accountable? Then ask the other question what made you feel as if that was wrong, what God put inside your heart? So that’s my take on thaty. I don’t know, I probably went off a little too much of a rant on that one there’s so much I could say about that.
Speaker 1:
That was really good, um I you. You portrayed beautifully how all these people are speaking into these laws and how we have broken people speaking into it, and so if we we have Christians being quiet on what morally is correct, then we have an issue, and I think we’ve been quiet for too long, I think.
Speaker 2:
We’ve abdicated our space I know, that’s what you say.
Speaker 2:
Yeah, absolutely, we’ve abdicated our space. And let me just use this example AI technology, chat GPT is a prime example. We all use it at some level. Maybe somebody that’s listening in your viewership is like, ah, it’s the mark of the beast, I’m not going to use it. All right, so. But chat GPT is an interesting concept because you’re able to get information pretty quickly, but you’re only able.
Speaker 2:
That software and the algorithms that it’s using is only using what’s been inputted, so it’s extrapolating information of what’s been put into the data set. So it’s taking information whatever’s in that tank of data and you search something. It’s only pulling from the data set of information that’s been inputted. So it can’t go outside the data set. It can’t go outside of the framework, it only operates within the data set, which leads to a whole conversation of where is it getting its data set? So if the product is free, then here’s the quote, then you’re the product. So everything that we do is inputting data, and so we could see the AI technology is just simulating and trying to actually replicate human predictability.
Speaker 2:
Well, here’s what’s crazy. Ai technology doesn’t have a soul, it doesn’t have morality. So what’s in the data set determines the value system of where it’s getting this information. So if there’s not truth within it, if there’s not inundated with a biblical framework and spirituality, then there’s only bits and pieces it could get because there was not spirituality put into it. I use that as an example is because if we’re living in a day and world of government and we don’t have Christians inputting spiritual, biblical principles, because we’ve abdicated this then the data set of society is making decisions with no Christian principles, no value system, no moral compass, and I think that’s what’s happening.
Speaker 2:
I think the behind the scenes reality is the fact that people are going. This is just too political. So because politics have been demonized and people have lost relationships. And, for example, if you said, ed, I want you to run for president, I’d first of all say no, thank you, mandy, you’re amazing, but I would get no votes. But here’s the truth of the matter. We see what happens to these candidates. We see what the fallout. We’re not a day and an age where we could respectfully disagree anymore. We can’t be friends. We live in a world that demonizes us and separates us, and the fractures of relationships because of politics is dividing more people than spirituality.
Speaker 2:
So what happens is Christians go. Man, I don’t want to lose relationships, I don’t want to lose friendships, I want to lose family. So they abdicate that space because of what you get the comments, the slander, the critiques. How dare you think this? Who do you think you are riding on your moral high horse? You know stuff that you hear along the way when you try to speak to real issues. So Christians go ah, I just abdicate that.
Speaker 2:
Well, every time we walk away, somebody else steps in that doesn’t believe what we believe. So where will the light be the light and where will the salt be the salt If all we do is hang out with other lights and only hang out with other grains of salt in the salt shaker we have to infiltrate? This is what I want to say to somebody that’s watching right now that feels like they’re going to quit because of the fact that, man, the school system is hard. They feel like they’re a missionary and it’s just overwhelming. I just want to say to somebody don’t give up.
Speaker 2:
We need you in that public school space. We need you to be that light, we need you to be that salt. We can’t all just end up at the Christian schools. I’m grateful product of Christian school, but we need more Jesus, people with the resolve to go into these spaces and places and say, hey, thus saith the Lord, and I won’t back down and I love you. And we can disagree and be respectful, especially in politics, because I’ll tell you, what’s interesting is that the media paints Christian people as if our butter has slid off our biscuit. We’re crazy people, we’re just nut jobs and it’s like no, but that’s what happens. That’s what happens.
Speaker 1:
They pick one nut job that really is a nut job, and then they highlight that in the media. Exactly the extremist and then as normal Christians over here who love everybody and just want to have respectful dialogue, we get lost. We get lost in the media.
Speaker 2:
Mandy Majors for president.
Speaker 1:
Yeah, that was really good. I loved your example of chat GBT. I thought that was really solid and a good way to look at it. A really good conversation there with our kids, because they are picking up an algorithm that is of human brokenness. That’s it. And I loved how you said it doesn’t have a soul. There’s no moral guidance with that. So the answers you get from your Snapchat AI robot is not going to have the soul. It’s going to be a godless answer that you get in that Snapchat room.
Speaker 2:
Totally.
Speaker 1:
Yeah, okay, man, what a great show, okay. So the last question. I know we have some families out there who don’t want to go to church because they feel like the church has gotten too political. Yeah, and that breaks my heart, that really breaks my heart. So what would you say to those families?
Speaker 2:
Yeah, I would dare to say that most likely, the experience that someone had in regards to the church has become political is because of what I was saying. They’re choosing to. Maybe that pastor is, with a moment of courage, stepping forward and addressing, like we do in this trending series. We’ve addressed everything from racism, black Lives Matter, homosexuality, transgenderism, ai technology and then the transgenderism into women’s equality. What does this look like? Going forward in women’s sports? So, as we deal with these issues once more, our society, isn’t it a very? It’s an interesting ploy of the devil to take these spiritual conversations and make people believe they’re political? They’re not political, they’re spiritual, because, once more, genderism is a spiritual reality. Homosexuality, promiscuity, all these these are hard issues, hard issues. So for me, I would say to the, to the listener today ask the question when you say the church has become political, is it because that man of god or woman of god is speaking to the spiritual reality of what’s happening? And have you been blinded by the fact that it’s just easy to take that conversation and put it into a political conversation, because politics seems to be talking about this? The church has to speak to the spiritual reality because the political reality has become spiritual. See, that’s probably the best way to say that when politics becomes spiritual, then you stepped into my world. Amen, you know what I’m saying. So when politics tried to legislate morality and spirituality and define gender and define marriage, you stepped into my world and I can’t be silent. So instead of saying the church has become political, and being critical of a pastor, actually esteem the brother, affirm that woman of God that will go. Thus sayeth the Lord, I’m not going to back down. So that’s one dynamic. The other dynamic is an interesting conversation that I’ve had with many people. Our church is multicultural. We are Republican and Democrat. I mean, we are right down the line here, and this is the intro. If you were to survey our church and ask is Ed a Democrat or Republican, you would probably get every answer. I know what I am. I’m a follower of Jesus and my party is the lamb. That’s who I am.
Speaker 2:
But to me, when you talk about churches becoming political, I think churches become political in the eyes of people is when they start endorsing candidates. And to me, and this is my personal persuasion you have to ask the question are we going to obey the laws or not obey the laws? Actually, a nonprofit entity can lose their nonprofit status for endorsing a candidate, using a platform to persuade people. So well, somebody goes. Well, it’s Acts, chapter five whether to obey you or to obey God. I’m going to choose to obey God and I’m not going to obey man. I get that, but then there’s also, like Romans 13, that says obey the laws of the land. So, for me, I don’t want us to lose our nonprofit status.
Speaker 2:
That’s one dynamic, but at the same time, it’s bigger than that. It’s way bigger than that. I want to be a unifier. I want to help people to make decisions, of biblically informed decisions on who to vote for, because of the moral, spiritual issues that these candidates are representing. I don’t talk about candidates. We pray for candidates. We’ll speak blessing over candidates, encourage to, pray for and serve the best way we can. However, at CBC and I can only speak for Community Bible Church we don’t endorse candidates, and I think that’s where people are like. That’s where they go. Man, the church has become political. If that’s what you’re speaking to, where a lot of folks are going, they’re going to wave the banner and I’m telling you, if I’m waving the banner, there’s only one name on that banner it’s Jesus.
Speaker 1:
Amen, I love that. I was actually going to ask you. I’m so glad that you shared that and were very transparent, because I do think that’s a huge threshold where churches have crossed the line and not done any good for doing that, because you’re endorsing somebody that is flawed. I mean, both parties are flawed, right, both candidates are flawed. We see that daily, and so it takes the light off of Jesus. Like he’s the savior, he, nobody can become an idol other than Jesus, like he is the one that we chase after.
Speaker 2:
Well, let me say this, Mandy, I got some dear friends in the Bible Belt of America, in the South of Tennessee, Alabama, Georgia. You know that predominantly they’re in kind of Republican spaces. I also have some friends that are in different urban contexts and even in some other non-urban contexts that are more democratic in regards to their church’s allegiance, which is harder? Let me just propose a question for you today that’s leaned in one party or the other, for that man of God or that woman of God to stand up and speak of politics to a particular demographic of people that already believe what you believe. So those are what I call like those. Those are softball conversations, because you’re talking about political elements to people that go I believe what you believe. So it’s like this. It’s like a rally. You know where everybody’s like yes, yes, yes, Versus. We have Democrat, Republican, independent all in the room. Tell me which one’s harder Speak to the majority base in your church or speak to groups of people who believe different things and get them to unify on the things that are eternal?
Speaker 2:
I would dare to say option two is far more difficult, far more difficult. But what I mean by that is to be a unifier versus a divider. I’ll tell you, it’s also far more difficult because you’ll never be democratic enough, You’ll never be Republican enough and I’ve been called all those things. People have left our church because I wasn’t Trump enough or I wasn’t Biden enough. In this whole process, you didn’t speak for fill in the blank, like you should have. I was accused, Mandy, straight up. I was accused of causing Donald J Trump Donald J Trump, President Trump to lose the election. Accused in 2020 because I didn’t talk about him from the pulpit. My fault, Literally my fault.
Speaker 1:
Can we revisit the nut job conversation just now?
Speaker 2:
Yes. So that’s the weight that people don’t know is carried by somebody that’s trying to be a unifier, because if you endorse the candidate, then everybody’s like yes, but guess what happened? Everybody’s saying yes. There’s other people that don’t know why they believe what they believe, that immediately just see something being endorsed and go oh this is what this is about. Endorsed and go oh, this is what this is about.
Speaker 2:
So, to me, I’m trying to become all things, to all people that I might win some, not at the expense of my convictions, not at the expense of my biblical worldview, but I’m trying to figure out, to do what Jesus would do, which is always interesting, because he was accused of eating with sinners. So the religious leaders hated him, the sinners loved him and he walked in this juxtaposition with government and civil leaders and how to actually be in that space of not neutrality. Oh, he wasn’t neutral, I promise you. He was towards the cross, understanding that the kingdom shall prevail, but it was to try to bring people together. He called out Pharisees. He called them out Absolutely. He called out sinners. But here’s what I’m saying to together. He called out Pharisees. He called them out, absolutely. He called out sinners. But here’s what I’m saying to you he was an equal opportunity offender and that’s to me. I want to speak to all people, not just one camp.
Speaker 1:
I think that’s really good for our audience because most of us listening aren’t going to pastor a church, obviously, but we do have to live in that tension with our kids where we have to love well but speak truth. And there’s a real tension there in discipling your kids and biblical truth but also loving very well and not surrounding yourself with what you called like yes man, you know, like a rally, like everybody who thinks like you, and I think we have to be careful that we don’t do that because we’re learning and we’re growing from people but we also have to be grounded in that truth of scripture and not wavering on that.
Speaker 2:
Here’s a good litmus test. I was telling my kids this If there’s a Harris sticker or a Trump sticker on somebody’s car and they cut me off and I immediately degrade them, devalue them because of the sticker on the back of their car, like that’s just that, that’s, that’s the, the democratic party. You know it what? They’re? Just a bad driver. But we immediately villainize, demonize because of association, either camp, that’s just that Trump party. You know, bunch of people, bunch of rebels. You know whatever it may be.
Speaker 2:
Then you know that this has gone so deep in your heart that now you’re categorizing people once more by the things that God didn’t categorize people by. We’re image bearers. See all people’s image bearers, every person we come in contact with, no matter the political party. God’s madly in love with. God’s chasing after God’s chasing after Vice President Harris. God’s chasing after President Trump, god’s chasing after all of these people. So to me, we got to lift our eyes to the hill in which our help comes from. So, and praise God, jesus is not up for vote every two or every four years. He’s King of Kings.
Speaker 1:
Well, and that’s a really good litmus test for parents to check their hearts and what we’re spewing out to our kids as well. Just the stereotyping, and I’m really glad that you challenged us with that, because I think Because our kids are hearing that. And we need to look in the mirror and be accountable for that and, if we’ve done it, repent to our kids and have a conversation about you know that’s not godly of me to just stereotype and demonize. Absolutely it’s a word, Pastor Ed.
Speaker 2:
Well, mandy, I want to speak blessing over you.
Speaker 2:
I know our time’s probably come to an end, but I just want to say thank you for your ministry.
Speaker 2:
I’ve always been a huge fan of you because of the fact that you choose to address these cultural topics, but also the fact that I don’t know of anybody I mean just a few people I know that have dedicated their life to helping parents be all that God’s called them to be, and I just want to say thank you for your faithfulness, thank you for your legacy, just for who you are, and you and your family are just precious to our city, and thank you for resourcing families all across the country to do. What I always have admired about you is to have those real conversations and to further the dialogue of trust, and I really believe what we’ve been called to is that Deuteronomy, chapter six, that what we would talk about the things of God as we go, not just at church, but as we live our lives, and you’ve always been that person. So thank you for your faithfulness to the call. Do not grow weary, my sister. God’s greatly using you.
Speaker 1:
Thank you for that encouragement. Thank you so much for taking time out of your busy schedule. Thank you so much for taking time out of your busy schedule.
Speaker 2:
This was a treat. We appreciate it so much. You’re a blessing. Thank you, Mandy.
Speaker 1:
Thank you. Make a donation today at nexttalkorg.
Speaker 2:
This podcast is not intended to replace the advice of a trained healthcare or legal professional, or to diagnose, treat or otherwise render expert advice regarding any type of medical, psychological or legal problem. Listeners are advised to consult a qualified expert for treatment.
This podcast is not intended to replace the advice of a trained healthcare or legal professional, or to diagnose, treat, or otherwise render expert advice regarding any type of medical, psychological, or legal problem. Listeners are advised to consult a qualified expert for treatment.
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