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Have you ever reacted or responded in a way that you know you totally messed up? The power of an apology is healthy for any relationship to repair and recover. What does this look like with our kids? With our spouse?
Have you ever reacted or responded in a way that you know you totally messed up? The power of an apology is healthy for any relationship to repair and recover. What does this look like with our kids? With our spouse?
Jamie Mershon is a Licensed Professional Counselor with over 15 years of experience. She is the founder of One:6 Christian Counseling, rooted in Philippians 1:6. The heartbeat of this verse is that we are called to growth, not perfection. In that, there is hope, healing, and transformation for His glory—even on a counseling couch!
Jamie serves as an advisory member and regular podcast guest for nextTalk and is a frequent conference speaker for churches, schools, and ministries throughout San Antonio. She is the wife of her “gentle giant” husband, Michael—seriously, he’s 6’8”—and the proud mom of three sweet little girls!
Transcription is done by an AI software. While technology is an incredible tool to automate this process, there will be misspellings and typos that might accompany it. Please keep that in mind as you work through it.
Speaker 1:
Welcome to the Next Talk podcast. We are a nonprofit passionate about keeping kids safe online. We’re learning together how to navigate tech, culture and faith with our kids. Today we are joined by Jamie Marchand she is a licensed professional counselor who I’ve known for years. We’ve worked with. We met at a Next Talk event. That’s how we met. I was an attendee, yes, and she. She came up to me afterwards and she’s like okay, from a counseling perspective, we got that and I was like all right, you’re going to be my student.
Speaker 2:
It was just. The rest is history.
Speaker 1:
Yes, yes, she served on our advisory council for years. She’s just a mentor, somebody that I call to for advice expertise. She’s reviewed sections from my book with the mental health stuff and said, okay, yes, this is good, this is not, and so she’s just been a great resource for us at Next Talk. But, jamie, tell us a little bit like that’s the professional side.
Speaker 2:
Tell us a little bit about personal. Yes, well, I know I’ve shared my history, but I’ll just give a quick refresh. I started off as an elementary school teacher, moved to school counseling and then, once my husband and I started our family with our three little girls, I transitioned to private practice and so that has been the professional journey and, like I said, married with three little girls. We have them very close in age and, you know, we’re just in the throes of it because they’re all elementary, so we’re at fourth, second and kinder, and so, you know, as we are raising these little girls, we’re also doing our own work, my husband and I, in regard to just working through our own stuff.
Speaker 2:
So there is never a dull moment at our house.
Speaker 1:
Yes. Thank you for having me. You’re busy and you see kids, you see teenagers, you see parents.
Speaker 3:
I mean I’ve said, I’ve referred so many people to your practice and um.
Speaker 1:
You know, of course we can’t talk about any of that confidential, but I know I’ve had so many people come back to me and one of the resounding things is I didn’t know there were counselors like Jamie. You know, that is the one thing that I get a lot Like. I didn’t know there were counselors like Jamie. You know, that is the one thing that I get a lot Like. I didn’t know. Counselors like her existed.
Speaker 2:
I think a lot of it is that God has just put so many different situations in my life and it makes me very relatable and I will not judge, and I have lots of things that keep me humble.
Speaker 2:
So I think there’s a level of when you’re counseling, you have this idea that the person across from you has it all together and I will be the first to say no, I do not. So I think that is one thing that you know. God has really, just you know, given me this heart to just meet people where they’re at, because I have been on the other side of it, where I’m the one on the couch. You know, absolutely.
Speaker 1:
Absolutely Healing from our own personal trauma experiences. All of that. Yeah, I think that’s such a good point. So I asked Jamie to come on the show today because recently we were having breakfast and we were talking about some Next Talk stuff and she shared this story with me about her daughter and I was like, oh my gosh, Jamie, that’s me Like I’ve done that. And so I was like come on this podcast and I want to start with the story and then I want to unpack it.
Speaker 2:
Yeah.
Speaker 1:
Cause we’re titling this episode when you hijack the moment, right.
Speaker 2:
Yes.
Speaker 1:
When you hijack the moment. So so, jamie, what? What moment did you hijack?
Speaker 2:
Well, you know, as I mentioned, I’m a girl mom, right. So there is just lots of, you know, typical girl stuff happening in my house. So we go to a uniform school. So one of my little ones, like we realized you have no clothes, like we just live in uniforms, you know. And so we’re like we need to go shopping. So we did all the fun things. You know, the target run Academy got her restocked with all the essentials, right. The target run Academy got her restocked with all the essentials, right. And then we get home and she is so excited because she’s got this vision. She’s going to organize the closet, she’s going to make sections, she’s going to make labels, like she has goals for this closet right, of how she’s going to organize all of this stuff. And so we’re starting.
Speaker 2:
And in my head, and so we’re starting, and in my head I became very task oriented and she was very experience oriented.
Speaker 2:
And so, you know, in the midst of all of our excitement, she’s like, oh, let me get the label maker out and I want to create this Right. And I could sense I was getting irritated. Like no, no, no, let’s, let’s just not make this into a big deal, like we just have to get your new clothes and put them in your closet. And you know, and she is like no, like the label maker, and we need to order this and I have to get this and let’s do this, and I could feel myself just getting more just kind of like annoyed by the process, right, and I totally hijacked it and I could see her body language go from like excited to just kind of like oh, like I thought we were going left and now we’re going right, and I read her body language and I realized I hijacked her little you know idea of having this moment with me where we were going to reorganize her entire closet. And excitement, her excitement, her joy.
Speaker 1:
Yes, it’s like I’ve been in those moments and you’re like squelching their little spirit.
Speaker 3:
That’s what it felt like to me when I’ve been in those moments, and a lot of times.
Speaker 1:
It’s just a practical thing to me too, of like I’m busy, Like I don’t have time. We’re we’re going from one thing to another too, of like I’m busy, Like I don’t have time, we’re going from one thing to another and instead of just making the time for it. But tell me how you unpack this. So did you apologize in the moment? Did you have to think about it for a day Like what happened yeah.
Speaker 2:
Well, I definitely filed that away. So then I tried to, like you know, shift gears and kind of own it. I am so sorry, like I can see that you know, you are really excited about this and I’m so focused on the project and getting this done and you’re more focused on how fun this is that me and you get to do this project, and so I just basically owned it and I said can I get a redo? Can I have a restart? Can we, can we do this over? I noticed how you were so excited. Right Is what I told my daughter and I could tell, as I you know, became task oriented. Your joy got less and less and less, and so I just simply asked can we do a redo?
Speaker 2:
But I had to take ownership of that and I called it what it was. I just said, you know, to my daughter I talk a lot about like me being your safe person, right, and me being the person that you can come and tell anything to. I said that’s kind of confusing when I’m asking to be your safe person and inviting you in to tell me anything, but then yet sometimes I can move you. And just a reminder that I’m not always going to get it right, but I still desire to be your safe person and I still desire you to come to me when I don’t get it right. But in this situation I was very aware that I didn’t get it right, so I was able to call myself out. But I am trying to train my children to advocate saying, mom, like I didn’t like how that made me feel or I didn’t like how you handled that, and so in a respectful way that they can advocate and kind of hold me accountable when there’s ways where I don’t get it right.
Speaker 1:
Man, I think this is gold. I think because, also, as I humbled myself when my kids were little I’m your age I saw, when they got to be older and the attitude would come out more and stuff, I wouldn’t even have to call it out because they they would humble themselves because that I had modeled that for them. I didn’t anticipate that that wasn’t a big old like parenting thing on my part. I just felt like God was calling me to be vulnerable and then they became vulnerable. But so I think this is just so huge, this whole conversation. But why do you think okay, maybe it was a busy thing you were busy or you needed to get onto the next thing.
Speaker 1:
But were there other reasons why you think you responded that way?
Speaker 2:
Yeah.
Speaker 1:
Unpack that for us because you’re a counselor and I was going to say, in the counselor world, there’s always like the root right.
Speaker 2:
And so I think, as parents, a lot of us grew up in the generation where you know, if we look back, we say you know there was food in the fridge. The lights came on, um, I had what I needed, so one paper. Our life was somewhat like. We checked a lot of the boxes, but one of the things that didn’t get checked is emotional attunement. So there was a lot of, um, emotional neglect in our generation, I would say, and I and I see and hear that a lot. And this analogy that I use is imagine going to the refrigerator and every time you go to the refrigerator you go and there’s no food and you keep going back to the refrigerator and eventually you stop going because you realize the refrigerator is empty, it can’t meet this need, and then over time, like your stomach hurts, it’s crawling right, and then you turn off the hunger cues because you’re like, well, they’re just a reminder of an unmet need.
Speaker 2:
A lot of us grew up with emotionally empty refrigerator parents, not because they were intentionally trying to neglect our emotions, but that’s a generation that was raised by the great depression, so their parents were busy, so a lot of them didn’t hear I love you. And a lot of them they weren’t seen and heard, right. So then they look at our generation and they’re like, but the lights were on and you had what you needed and you know you had these experiences right. But a lot of us felt very unseen and unheard. So we just said, well, emotions are useless. So we got really busy.
Speaker 2:
So, on papers, a lot of us became high achievers and very task oriented. So when our children, like, look at the closet, they have permission to find joy in this experience with their mom. I, on the other hand, look at that and I see it as a task. So I’ve had to retrain my brain. Like you know, when we’re at target and we get everything off the list and one of my girls wants to go look at skincare, let’s just be in the moment.
Speaker 2:
We don’t have to be worried. Like no, we got everything off the list. Let’s check out and go like in knowing that, like even joy sitting in joy, like that’s a big deal to them. Or sometimes, you know, if somebody is throwing a fit because they don’t want to get their shoes off, we get irritated Like we got to go just get your shoes on. It’s a task, just do it Right, and so you know. It could be a tantrum or it could even just be a joyful thing where they just want to shop around. They don’t need anything, the list is done, but just being present and being in the moment. And that’s what I missed that day with the closet organization activity.
Speaker 1:
I want to take a moment here, because your analogy of going to the fridge and it’s empty, your needs not being met yeah, I think that happens a lot. It does.
Speaker 2:
In good households, Because we kind of just feel like, well, feelings are useless then right. And we find a way to work through our feelings and that looks like we stay busy.
Speaker 1:
Well, and we’re dismissive. Yes, we’re dismissive too, because what if our child like to you, the closet organization was a big deal to her? To you closet organization, even on an experience level, you’re like I don’t even care what my closet looks like I just didn’t get to be there. Yes, Right, and so hearing what’s important to her and being sensitive to that, I think so many times we’re dismissive of what’s important to them.
Speaker 2:
Exactly Right, cause we have bigger things going on, so we just almost get annoyed or irritated when really they’re looking for a moment to connect with us.
Speaker 1:
I love the example that you said too, because you know they’ll, they’ll confide, and if their needs aren’t met or they’re dismissed or you blow up and you’re crazy parent mode, then then there’s a resistance there and, like you said, then they ignore the hunger cues. So then what happens is they become numb and ignore their emotions, right, exactly, and then everything becomes task oriented, right, like how we grew up Right.
Speaker 2:
And then you look on paper and you’re like, wow, you’re really a motivated person, no, just a coping mechanism and I’m stuffing all the emotions down.
Speaker 1:
Okay, this is so good. I think this is just so good for parents. But I also want to address I want to be devil’s advocate here too, because on the flip side of this we’re saying listen to our kids more, be in the moment you know, be in tune to their feelings all very, very important. But on the flip side of that I think some people say but that goes to the extreme, and then the kids are just dictating everything by their feelings. Parents aren’t being parents. There’s no boundary, we just go with whatever the kid wants to go with.
Speaker 1:
That’s not what we’re saying here, right, absolutely. Clarify that because we’re a pendulum swinging world and I don’t want anybody to hear that that’s what we’re saying. Even though we’re saying listen to your kid, be in tune, understand what’s important to them, we’re not saying bow down to them and they run the show.
Speaker 2:
That’s not what we’re saying A lot of a phrase I use a lot is just keep it the right size Right. So like, think about a cantaloupe. Don’t catastrophize it and make it into a watermelon. Don’t minimize it and make it a grape. Maybe it is a grape, then don’t make it into a cantaloupe, just keep it the right size right. Sometimes that everything is going to be a conversation, you know what? I can tell that you’re frustrated and right now our job is we need to go, but we can talk about this later or we can follow up right. Sometimes, just naming the feeling we don’t always have time for everything to be a conversation right. In a perfect world we would. I think we have so many, so much like anxiety around parenting right now, of just like all these rules of, like you know.
Speaker 2:
I read a quote and said this or this is how you talk about it. We’re not always going to get it right. But you have to have peace at the end of the day, knowing like you did the best you could with what you knew, the kind of day you had where the season you were in life. You really have to be at peace with how you’re navigating this and you know what I always say is it’s not our job to always get it right. You know I love Philippians. You know one, six and basically it’s just. You know until our last breath we’re not going to get it right and be perfected right. That’s, that’s safe for heaven.
Speaker 2:
But on this side of heaven we are called to grow right and because of that, when we don’t get it right, part of growth is knowing how to repair and recover and that’s what I did with my daughter. I was in tune to see with her body language. I robbed her joy. I was in tune with myself to recognize what I did in that moment and that I hijacked it. And then I repaired and recovered and I asked for a redo. So when I look back at that, it is actually says more about my healing journey that I was in tune enough with myself to recognize what I was doing and I was in tune enough with my daughter. And not all situations in my life look that way, but that is one where I can see the Lord’s blessing of the work I’ve done in my healing and the work he’s done in my life. But I think that repair and recover piece is goal.
Speaker 1:
I mean that’s so important. That’s why we say look in the mirror all the time, because we can’t heal or fix or help if we can’t see what’s going on in our, in our own self and dealing with our own stuff.
Speaker 2:
That we need to fix, and we don’t even know how to be in tune enough with our own emotions, right, because a lot of us have turned them off. Yeah, so it’s having to stop and really feel.
Speaker 1:
Well, and what I love about this story parents is we’re saying it’s a healthy experience, this is a healthy situation, but she still messed up. And I think that is so hopeful and that makes us not be so stressed out about parenting all the time and saying the right things, because you may say the wrong thing, you may misspeak, you may give wrong, like whatever, but like walking in that vulnerability of I didn’t get that right, like I’m sorry, man, that is freedom, because then it’s almost like I don’t have to be a perfect parent.
Speaker 2:
And you’re also modeling reconciliation right, because forgiveness is, you know, one person can forgive two people that are forgiving. Like that’s reconciliation and that’s modeling. It’s modeling, ownership, it’s modeling. Hey, how do we get it right and not be rug sweepers Like, no, we’re just, we’re going to talk about it and, you know, even if I would not have caught myself in the moment, I could have followed up on that two days later. Hey, this has really been heavy on my heart. Remember when we were doing the closet, like this is what I noticed and I’ve really just been thinking about it and praying about it.
Speaker 1:
I want to apologize, that’s okay too, there I can tell there have been so many times in my life where I feel there have been those moments where I’ve hijacked the moment and I’ve sucked the life out of my kid and I saw it and I didn’t have the courage to repair right then, and later I would let it go, I would talk myself out of it and then later maybe it was I was listening to a pastor or reading a book- and it would just hit me.
Speaker 1:
Go back to that moment, go back to your kid. I mean, sometimes months would have passed and I still did it, you know, because I think that says something to your kid, especially too if you’ve done this like two months ago or three years ago, you know it’s a moment that you, that you still pops in your mind of I sucked the life out of them and how I handled that situation Like apologize, go back.
Speaker 2:
And they may say mom, I don’t even remember that, but it’s more for your mama heart. Yeah Right, it’s more for your mama heart. And when you stand before the Lord, you’re like. Okay, lord, like I’m, I’m clear of that Right Like I felt the conviction, I felt the heaviness. I was obedient that this was unreconciled and I don’t feel at peace with that.
Speaker 1:
Yeah, and I know this podcast is really about parent child relationship and this is so good, but as we’re talking about this, I’m feeling a little conviction about spouses here and sucking the life out of them and I think, as a wife, I sometimes see Matt as like really strong and he can handle it, yes, and like it’s sad to say, but almost like my place where I vent, you know, like he just he’s the holder of all my stuff sometimes you know what, like God has equipped’s the holder of all my stuff sometimes?
Speaker 2:
You know what Like God has equipped men to be that Right yeah. But I think sometimes we take advantage of it, yes, right, and we’re not discerning of.
Speaker 1:
Like you know, it’s just like a free for all, because I think, then we shift it into when we’re upset about how they handled a situation. We may not say our words as carefully as we would with our kid right, Because we’re like he can handle it. He’s big and strong and the protector, and I’m just going to tell him you suck Right and, and you see it, you see the the defeat.
Speaker 1:
Yes, you know, um, whatever you want to call it, and I think I think that’s a conviction too. As wives, we have to be thinking about how we do have honest conversations with our husbands. Obviously, there’s times that I’ve had to say to Matt I don’t think we you handled this right and we talk just like he does with me, but how I’m presenting it and am I as soft with him and is careful with his feelings as I am with my son? And I’m always not Right.
Speaker 2:
And I think sometimes too, we can like almost treat our husbands like IOP, like they’re available 24 hours a day, and they are, but we never say hey, I really have to talk to you about something like that’s been bothering me. Do you have the capacity, right? We just expect them to be available and present, and you know, and if not, then it’s like we come up with these like well, if you really love me, you would want to hear this or be available.
Speaker 2:
And it’s like it’s not that they don’t want to, but even as moms, sometimes we’re like we really want to hear from our kids. It’s just the timing it’s right. We just don’t have the bandwidth or the capacity to be as available as we need to be Right, and if it’s something that can wait right, then I think to honor, you know, their timing of saying, hey, I really want to hear you, but can we talk about this tomorrow? You know?
Speaker 1:
Well, and I think even what you just said about, sometimes we create a thought process in our head of well, if you love me, you would listen. And you’d always be available we go down to the spiral of why can’t you be like this person’s husband? Why can’t we do that with our kids too? Why can’t you be that? Like that kid Right. That’s a dangerous place that Satan takes us in and it’s a false narrative that we’re telling our mind. It’s not true, most of the time.
Speaker 2:
I think it goes back to what I was saying. A lot of us had to detach from our emotions, right, and become very task oriented. We are not even in tune with ourselves to recognize like, oh, I am creating this whole narrative. If you’re living more in the here and now, you’re going to be able to recognize when the enemy’s coming in, the lies he’s telling us in Ephesians when it talks about renewing your mind, right, because we run off of beliefs more than reality. So you’ll hear me say that a lot, but it is really true. But it goes back with us being very in tune because we’re so task oriented. It’s like, but I want to talk about it now and I need to get this off my chest now, right, but emotion is saying, oh, this is really heavy on me, let me have a conversation. And if my husband isn’t available, I might feel disappointed. But that’s mine to work through, right, that’s not his fault. Those are my feelings to sit with and work through. It’s not his job to always make me feel great. Yeah, you know.
Speaker 1:
I think that’s good. I just we didn’t even plan to go to the marriage component, but as we were talking through this, I just kept thinking, man, you know, we, we do go back and repair and and, you know, fix and reset with our kids and we’re soft and we’re humble, but but oftentimes we won’t do that with our spouse or or like friends that we butt heads with same kind of situation here, of of that you know why did I respond the way that I did? Yeah, yeah, and sometimes it’s needed, I mean boundaries are good.
Speaker 1:
I’m not saying boundaries are bad and just like the, the, the husband not being available, he shouldn’t always not be available.
Speaker 2:
Obviously, we don’t want to go to extremes again but he can’t.
Speaker 1:
there may be moments where he’s like I can’t do this right now. I agree, I need a minute. I agree.
Speaker 2:
And you know, I think there’s this fear right now because a lot of us are healing ourselves while we’re raising children and we’re having to confront really hard things in our past or with our parents. And I don’t know if you want to call it a trend or I don’t know the word that I want to use, but just the no contact. There’s a lot of fear that parents are like well, are my children going to be no contact if I don’t get it right? And so I think that there is this perfectionism that is being put on parents with their children, where we sometimes put more pressure on that versus like our spouse or the friends in our life, because we just have this fear that our children are going to grow up and not want a relationship with us. So we have to do so many things right.
Speaker 1:
Well, yeah, I’m glad you brought that up. I mean, this is just my opinion from the work that I do. I think that that is a social media push. Honestly, it’s an online social media. If your parents don’t endorse a hundred percent of everything you do, cut them out of your life. They’re toxic, right?
Speaker 2:
And it’s such an extremist though right. It’s like the word narcissist. Everyone’s a narcissist, but if somebody truly is, it’s almost really hard for people who truly have somebody like that in their life or truly have a reason to go.
Speaker 2:
No contact or everyone has trauma and for somebody who truly has complex PTSD. We just have to be careful with all these labels because I think they’re fear mongering and I think that they create all this comparison and fear. And I just say that, you know, bringing it back to the kids, what we were talking about. I think it creates this heaviness in parenting because it creates this fear If we don’t get it right, our kids right. But that goes back to that accountability and repair and recover.
Speaker 1:
And the vulnerability, just being honest about things. Yes, and honestly too, like like being in the word of God, like honestly, the more I, the more I’m in the word of God, the more humble I become, because I realize how flawed I am. Yes, and I think that that is so important in parenting for that to come through. Yes, you know I may have handled that conversation wrong, I may have lectured you too much about that, my opinions may have gotten the best of me and I said things that weren’t appropriate. You know, like admitting all of that.
Speaker 1:
Cause we’re all guilty of something Right, right.
Speaker 2:
Messing up and I think, like what you said, like you’re being very specific, I think sometimes we joke, like we make these blanket statements like oh, I didn’t get it right, I was a hot mess Right. Like it’s this false illusion, Like we’re being relatable and humble, but like really getting into the weeds like how did you really not get it right?
Speaker 2:
Because you know there there is a lot of generational stuff here and lots of times, if we just really understand some of these heart behind it or where they were, there’s a lot of compassion there. But when there’s no ownership or there’s really nothing to really help us understand it, it’s really hard. We, we kind of just feel guarded and protected.
Speaker 1:
Yeah, yeah, and I think you’re right too. It does. It does a disservice. I hate the like just cut people out of your life mentality Like. I hate it because it’s I don’t think it’s really biblical, honestly, and boundaries are different. Boundaries are completely different when I’m talking about but this whole like we can’t have a conversation, so they’re toxic. So we’re done kind of like calling everybody toxic because there truly are parents who are abusing their kids. That is a situation that there needs to be no contact Right, Exactly.
Speaker 2:
And we’re we’re watering that down because we’re making every situation like that, and there are real situations where no contact, like you’re always going to have the hope for reconciliation and that’s not lost on you and that is biblical Right and there are times where there is a time out, right. But I think it’s really driving a fear in how parents are raising their kids. Yeah, yeah.
Speaker 1:
So, okay, we got a parent out there. They’re listening to the show and they’re like, oh my gosh, I’ve hijacked the moment and did something horrible either with my kids and they’re like, oh my gosh, I’ve hijacked the moment and did something horrible either with my kids, my spouse, a close friend, yep, it’s the best piece of advice.
Speaker 2:
I would say, if you the repair and recover, I just I think repair and recover take ownership. I didn’t get it right. Ask for a redo model reconciliation. That I think you cannot go wrong with that. Yeah, I would also like to add I’m just thinking about situations where I’ve had to do this, jamie, because it’s vulnerability too, because I’ve had to do it a lot.
Speaker 1:
I think, too the apology and the ownership. Be careful with that as far as it doesn’t become an I’m sorry, but this is why I did that. Yeah, because then it becomes you’re regurgitating like your side of what you thought and the apology really just needs to be like I’m sorry, like I behaved badly.
Speaker 2:
Or it’s I’m sorry, it’s not okay for an adult to speak to you that way. Like, just take that ownership of really like what are we sorry for? Because we want to make sure that they understand like I am sorry, it is not okay for this to happen because you’re very clear and you’re not normalizing anything, yeah, you know. So I think the more specific you can be with ownership of just like I’m sorry, it’s not okay for me to speak to you that way, or I’m sorry, I need to work on being more patient, right? That’s putting it all on me.
Speaker 1:
Well, because I think about your daughters the closet you know. Let’s circle back to that. You know you could have said I’m sorry, but I have this X, y and Z to do and that’s why I wanted to do this.
Speaker 2:
Then you’re actually making them feel bad for wanting to be creative and yourself feel better.
Speaker 1:
And you’re making. So that’s why I say be careful with the apology Cause. So many times we’re like I’m sorry, but we’re defending ourselves Exactly, and then it makes the other person still feel bad and we’re not really hearing how we hurt them. And so I do want to put that.
Speaker 2:
I mean just you can tell I got a life, a lot of life experience. Well, I love that I’m tucking that way as a mom right. Because I think that’s a really good point, mandy, yeah, yeah.
Speaker 1:
Yeah, and I’ve been so guilty of that Like I’m sorry, I responded that way, but I had this, this and this going on, and then it makes them feel like still kind of dismissed and like it was their fault and it’s not their fault. They’re just a kid wanting to hang out with their mom or do something cool.
Speaker 2:
Exactly, yeah, learn from all of our mistakes. We kind of went lots of different directions, but if you really see it as a whole, you can see how there’s just so many layers to all of this.
Speaker 1:
Yeah, yeah, repair, recover and apologize, like just start out with the apology and it’d be a true, genuine apology and not trying to argue your side or defend yourself. Yeah, yeah, I agree. Okay, anything else that you want?
Speaker 2:
to say I can think of Thanks for being here, I this was.
Speaker 1:
There was a lot of layers to this and there always is when you’re doing hard work, but I think this is a really good show and I know it helped me. Yeah, and now I’m thinking about things, I have to go apologize for you know what we’re just doing?
Speaker 2:
the Lord’s work and he’s working through us, and yes, yeah, yeah, all right.
Speaker 1:
Well, thanks for being here, thanks for having me.
Speaker 3:
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