0:00:00 – Speaker 1
nextTalk, sponsored by nextTalk.org, contains content of a mature nature. Parental guidance is advised. Welcome to nextTalk Radio with Mandy and Kim Every Saturday at 10 am on AM630, the word. Mandy is the author of Talk and Kim is the director of nextTalk, a non-profit organization helping parents’ cyber parent through open communication. Follow us on Facebook, instagram and Twitter, find our free video series and subscribe to our weekly podcast at nextTalk.org. Are you ready for the nextTalk?
0:00:38 – Speaker 2
Today we’re talking about transgender. It’s a big topic. It’s a very difficult topic to cover, very controversial.
0:00:45 – Speaker 1
It is.
0:00:47 – Speaker 2
We’ve been praying a lot about it and preparing for it. There’s bathroom debates, locker room debates, sports arguments about who can play on what team. It’s a lot and it’s everywhere and it’s kind of infiltrated into a lot of conversations.
0:00:57 – Speaker 3
Well, and I think first of all we need to define transgender. What does that mean? And it really means somebody is questioning their gender, you know male or female. This really let’s take away, like the attraction or the homosexuality. Let’s take that off the table and just think about it as somebody questioning am I supposed to be a boy or am I supposed to be a girl? The other thing I need to say we have a disclaimer here. This is not a show about my kid may be transgender and they’re questioning and I need your help. So Kim and I have not walked through that as parents. We can’t guide you on that. What you need to do is you need to see a medical doctor, you need to see a Christian counselor, you need to talk to your pastor. Get help with that. I will say this Love your baby.
0:01:43 – Speaker 2
Yeah.
0:01:44 – Speaker 3
Even if they’re questioning themselves and they’re coming to you and you’re confused and you don’t know what’s going on, love them Absolutely.
0:01:51 – Speaker 2
That’s what I want to say. It’s going to be a journey, so you want to go on it together. You don’t want to put that wall up right away.
0:01:56 – Speaker 3
Exactly. It’s a journey together and, like I said, seek medical attention. Go see your pediatrician, a family doctor, a Christian counselor, get that medical help. This show, though, is really about. What we want to talk to you about is what do you say to your kids when they come and say what’s going on with that person and they notice something that’s different. How do we respond and what do we say? And we really want to get this conversation going Again. This is the beginning. We’re learning right along with you. We’re having these questions or these discussions at home with our kids on a regular basis, and so we want to open up this conversation. How do you handle it? We’re going to give you some examples of how we handle it.
0:02:36 – Speaker 2
Absolutely, and if you’re thinking well, my kid hasn’t asked me about that, it’s just a matter of time and that’s why we do these shows. It’s not for shock value, it’s not to put out their issues or ideas that maybe you haven’t thought about, just to start the conversation in your own head and your own family, so you’re ready before your kids come to you.
0:02:54 – Speaker 3
I’m so glad you said that, because my oldest daughter I was able to not explain this to her until sixth grade, when she started being exposed to it. My son though he is four years younger than her and I had to explain it in third grade because they were talking about it on the playground at school and because somebody had been online and saw a story and they brought it and told it at the other kids, and so he came home and he was like, what does this mean? And so I had to have that conversation with a third grader at the time.
0:03:24 – Speaker 2
Yes, and when my son was a first grader, we were at the mall during the holidays and went into a chocolate shop and there was someone there that was obviously a boy but dressed with girl makeup and clothes, and he’s very in tune and aware and noticed right away and said well, what do you call that and what does that mean? Like he wants to know. So the question, in some form or fashion, will be asked of you.
0:03:50 – Speaker 3
And I think that it’s going to your response is going to vary because on what age they are. So, kim, tell us when they were, when they’re little. I mean, what is it? I mean it’s pretty basic right.
0:04:02 – Speaker 2
You stick to truth, you stick to scripture, yes, and you don’t want to give more information than what they’re actually asking, a lot of times because we’re not ready. We’re like either we say you’re too young for that or I don’t know, or you just avoid it and none of those are really a great option, because then they’re going to get the answer somewhere else.
So we want to be truthful, we want to be short and only answer what they’re asking. And in our situation, when he asked that question, I simply said you know, there’s a lot of people in the world that are still trying to figure things out and we need to pray for them. But the bottom line is we need to love them. We need to love them through that and not judge them. And he’s not sure, or she’s not sure, where they fit in, and that’s got to be a really difficult place to be.
And he’s like, yeah, because I know I’m a boy, you know he could relate to that and then he was happy with that answer, like I get confused about things too, and not that we want to say you get confused about your gender identity, but I wanted him to relate to the feeling of not knowing exactly what’s going on and then say we use that and come from a place of love in the way we treat them Right, and that was it. We moved on and went to Build-A-Bear yeah. So that was it Easy and simple and not judgmental. And that’s so important because when they’re that age, they really connect with what you’re saying and then they repeat it. They become little voice boxes of you. So if we’re judgmental in the way we respond, that’s the path that your kids are going to take.
0:05:26 – Speaker 3
And I can tell you, having a middle schooler, you know she comes home a lot. There’s a lot of debate going on with big topics in middle schools and if she comes home and she there reaches a point, it’s really around the end of seventh grade. I’ve noticed beginning of eighth grade. They reach a point where they see both sides of the spectrum and they see the full argument about anything. I’m not just talking about this, and so you know, if you come across like, well, this is the way, this is the only way. And let me give you an example, like when she comes home and says well, tell me about this bathroom debate, like, tell me what the sides are on this. And I will say to her you know, there are people who struggle and they want to use the bathroom of their choice because they, you know, for for whatever reason, they struggle with their identity. But on the flip side of that, you have people saying you know, god made us male or female, which is what the Bible says and that’s consistent with the biblical truth. But at the same time they’re worried that people are going to take advantage of this bathroom law and hurt other kids from the opposite gender. And I said. You know both sides really have a point there’s, there’s a validation in both of them. But you know, I lean a little bit more towards this way of where the biblical truth is. And this because you know we can’t change everything for everyone and make everyone happy all the time, and so you have to go with what the majority.
But at the same time we had a huge discussion about not being mean or treating with disrespect. I mean, everybody gets respect, everybody gets mutual respect. Jesus loves everyone. Jesus loves the broken more than you know in the confused more than anyone. He said that precedence for us. So those are some really hard discussions.
I would caution you though, just sometimes, when your middle schoolers coming home they’re trying to figure it out. I guess why I share this story is a lot of times we can just say what we believe and that’s it, and that’s the end of the discussion, and we miss so much in the conversation of where their head is at. If we talk it through with them, that’s so good, and we can say our point of view and we read scripture together. I mean my daughter and I we go to scripture. She knows that’s the truth. That’s where we look to for truth. But it helps us love people when we understand where they’re coming from Absolutely, so we can say I see a little bit of what they’re saying and then we don’t, you know, become a bully or anything that we’re not supposed to do.
0:07:58 – Speaker 2
And I think one of the things we want to point out here that sometimes, as Christians, we back away from is there is truth, there is.
0:08:06 – Speaker 3
And.
0:08:06 – Speaker 2
I forgot to say that earlier is that was the other thing I said to my son was God made you either a girl or a boy, and so that must be very confusing for this person going through that. I wanted him to hear the truth, but also the other side of that and the compassionate side of that. So we shouldn’t back away from what we believe to be true but, like you said, present the full argument and then the conversation can be a beautiful learning piece.
0:08:31 – Speaker 3
Well, I mean, think about it. You’re having a conversation with a friend and you’re saying I’m struggling with this issue of transgender and how to talk to my kids, and you’re setting having coffee. If your friend says to you I think this is awful and this is the way it needs to be, and this is done Like the conversation is over, it’s over, like you’re not going to, there’s not going to, and so, with our kids, we want to create conversation around it. There’s going to be time where you’re going to tell them exactly what you believe and why you believe it and read scripture together. But that dialogue is so important and it really really does help you get a feel for where your kid’s head is, like okay, are they getting this or they need more help with this?
0:09:07 – Speaker 2
I think that really goes to the old saying we’re not going to argue people into the church. Oh, that’s so good, right, and so same thing, amen, sister.
0:09:14 – Speaker 1
We want to love them into the church.
0:09:17 – Speaker 2
And so putting up that wall with our friends, our community and especially our kids is not the way.
0:09:22 – Speaker 3
And there are people in our church that go to our church that are born with a biological disorder that they struggle with, and so we want to get to that. We’re going to get to it.
0:09:32 – Speaker 2
We’ve got to get some research for you.
0:09:35 – Speaker 3
If you’ve read my book, you know that I have two steps when dealing with controversial issues basically sexuality and transgender that I use with my kids. And step one is to teach love, which was what we’ve been talking about, and that way you don’t have a judgmental tone and you don’t shut down the conversation. And then step two is teaching that truth, like what does God’s word say about it? And teaching our kids like it doesn’t really matter, like I will tell my kids all the time it doesn’t really matter what mommy believes, like what does God believe? Yeah, like that’s. It doesn’t matter what anybody else believes. What does the Bible say about it? And so that’s kind of what we want to dissect here today the teach love portion. We’ve kind of covered that already.
But I do want to give you, you know, the golden rule. Yes, so many people think well, where did the golden rule come from? You guys, it initiated with Jesus. Like Matthew 712, luke 631, treat others as you would want to be treated, absolutely. And so that is our core message here. You know, no matter if we disagree or we don’t think it’s right, we’re going to treat you with respect because that’s what God commands us to do. We’re going to love you, mm-hmm.
0:10:36 – Speaker 2
You know, we have to teach our children that, even when they don’t understand or agree, default to love. Yeah, and that’s, you know, our shirts. We have shirts that say default to love. I’m wearing mine today just as a reminder that that’s the place we always need to come from.
0:10:49 – Speaker 3
Yeah, so you know, and we can see this throughout scripture, we can go over and over. There’s, you know, the woman at the well, the woman caught in adultery. Over and over again, god reaches out to people who are, by society standards, are, put in a category of different. Yes, and so you know, jesus loves those people. Every person matters to God. Whether they’re questioning their gender or not, god loves them.
0:11:17 – Speaker 2
And whether they believe in him or not, absolutely it’s an important defining thing with the little ones that they need to know. Yeah, yeah.
0:11:24 – Speaker 3
So let’s talk about some scientific research, because you know we’ve covered that teach love part and I think that everybody gets that. Yeah, but there always has to be when you’re dealing with these controversial issues. If you, if you sigh too, sigh too heavily on the love side, your kid misses the truth, and if you sigh too much on the truth side, your kid misses the love. So you’ve got to bring that balance together and to do that, to talk about, okay, what is truth. Yeah, we need to look at some things. We need to look at science, the Bible verses, and so that’s what we want to do right now. So that’s what we want to do right now. I think about middle school science class. Yeah, your husband used to teach science.
0:12:01 – Speaker 2
right, he loves science. My boys love science too, so it really speaks to them to hear the truth set a fourth in that way.
0:12:07 – Speaker 3
Yeah, so we all have 23 sets of chromosomes. That’s 46 total. All of those chromosomes, but the 23rd set relate to the characteristic that make us each unique. So think eye color, hair color, all of that chromosomes make up those little characteristics of us. But the 23rd set determines sex, correct. So it’s XX for female, xy for males, and so science tells us it kind of aligns, it does not, kind of it aligns with God’s word, genesis 127.
God created human beings in his own image, male and female. He created them. We can also see it in Genesis 5, 2 and Matthew 19, 4 and 5, throughout scripture, and when it talks about marriage it talks about one man and one woman coming together to be one. And so that is scripturally what it says. And so for your first discussion, that’s a really great point to make. Just if you know what they’re little and they ask you about it, say, ok, this is what you’re going to learn in middle school science class about the chromosomes and this lines up with God’s word. And then it’s pretty simple. Now it gets a little bit more complicated and we’re getting ready to get into that.
0:13:22 – Speaker 2
Yeah, and I would just add to that man, most of us who are in the junior stage. It’s going to start with an observation and so take that observation conversation and I’m not meaning to rhyme and bring that home to have the science side of it. I think that’s a great tip. You can continue the conversation by setting that standard at a young age. We make the observation, we have the conversation and then let’s go to the word and see what it says.
0:13:49 – Speaker 3
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0:14:08 – Speaker 2
All right, we’ve got to talk about the gray area, which is always the most difficult to swim through. Some people have biological disorders. Yeah, it makes it difficult to determine their sex as male or female. It doesn’t mean that God didn’t make them male or female, it’s not a mistake. But science cannot figure that out.
0:14:26 – Speaker 3
Science is behind God. Yes, so we’re trying to figure out, ok, what happened, because there is a small number of individuals and we’ve previously referred to them.
0:14:37 – Speaker 2
Well, they used to be called hermaphrodites. Hermaphrodites, excuse me.
0:14:40 – Speaker 3
Yes, and I think the new appropriate word, the politically correct term I’ve heard the term intersex or a third sex. Some people say that or DSD is also one. It’s Development of Sex Disorder and so all of those things are kind of what we’re looking at now and again. Like I said, it’s a small percentage of the population but it’s scientifically happening. So how do we address those issues with our kids?
0:15:10 – Speaker 2
I think it’s great to present this, because we don’t know I’ve said this a few times we don’t know what’s going on under someone’s clothes or in their heart or head, and this is a great example of that. We don’t know if someone is dealing with a DSD or their intersex, and they probably have no idea how to navigate it.
0:15:26 – Speaker 3
You know what we don’t know, if our neighbors, if one of them, is having an affair and their family is falling apart, but they look perfect on the outside, because we never know what the person right next to us is struggling with, and we’ve got to love people like that. Ok, so let me give you a quote here from the American College of Pediatricians, because, as I was researching this for my book and I will tell you, I did my research to answer my kids questions and it turned into a chapter that I was like I think this will be helpful to other parents because it helped me answer some questions that my kids came to me about the American College of Pediatricians. This is what they say. This is a quote.
The exceedingly rare disorders of sex development, or called DSDs, are all medically deviations from the sexual binary norm and are rightly recognized as disorders of human design. But individuals with such disorders do not constitute a third sex. So here’s the question that I got If people are either born male or female and that’s scientific and that’s for the most of the general population and that’s what God’s word says then why do people question their gender? Well, of course, I mean. This is the question like, even if that seems like the next logical question Okay so the cross point gender support group.
Here’s a quote from them. Theories of both psychological and biological casualty have been forwarded, and it is quite likely there are different causes for different individuals. I think what we need to take away here is some people are born with things that cause them to question. You know, maybe their genitals are not matching up to their chromosomes or something like that. But then there are also people that are born fine, where their genitals match their chromosomes, so say they’re a boy, but then they start to question that and want to become a girl, and so that could be a psychological thing or it could be any other factor. I think the bottom line here is that every person has a story. God makes each of us unique. We all have flaws. I think that is the overlying message here. We can’t stereotype and say, well, all transgender people are psychologically have a problem. I don’t think that’s appropriate.
That is happening in some places? Absolutely. And so we need to be really careful how we word this with our kids.
0:17:58 – Speaker 2
I’m glad that we’re able to have the conversation in this way, because I think this is similar to how it needs to be with your spouse and your family you need to be able to talk it through and say I don’t know how all this works, but here’s what God says and here’s the science behind it.
What do you think? Yeah, and start that conversation with your spouse, and then, when it’s time and your kids come to you, you’re ready for it, because you need to know where you stand. Because of this next concern, that, one of the main reasons we wanted to talk about this show yeah, yeah, and you know that’s great.
0:18:28 – Speaker 3
That’s a great point, kim, because we also have to remember and I always say this to my kids I love the Bible verse that says God ways are not our ways. Yeah, because my kids will say, well, how could people be born with this? Well, I, would God do that? We don’t understand that. Yeah, you know, but maybe it’s God wants us to teach us how to love people that are different. I mean, we don’t know God’s ways are not our ways. We don’t know. All we know is that we have to trust him. That’s what having faith is like, and we see the science lining up with God’s word. So we have to take him on that.
0:19:04 – Speaker 2
Yeah, and if you have a real literal kid, like I do, we say put it on your list of things. You’re going to ask as soon as you walk through the pearly gates. Yeah, because I don’t have the answer. Only God does. But I certainly want you to ask when you get there. Yeah, and that seems to work, because sometimes we just don’t have a final answer.
0:19:21 – Speaker 3
Like you said, we have to wait on God, because we are not him, yeah, and at the bottom line, if you don’t understand it and people are different, we are still to. Love goes back, goes back to the golden rule and all of that. Okay, so so here’s my main concern. You know we’ve covered DSDs and we know that there are biological cases that we don’t understand and that there are people that struggle here’s, here’s what I’m seeing happening in our culture today, that that frightens me. It’s trendy to be trans.
0:19:51 – Speaker 2
Yeah.
0:19:52 – Speaker 3
Yeah, it’s a thing, it’s a real thing. I mean, kids think it’s cool, yeah, which is which is good in the fact that they’re not bullying those kids. So that is a great thing. But we are getting into a slippery slope because then people who aren’t questioning their gender before are now questioning and they’re thinking if only I could be this, then my life would be better. Now that opens up a whole slew of conversations, because you have to be content with you, with how God made you, because the grass is not greener on the other side. So you have some of these kids thinking, if I just change my sex or I do this, then I’m going to be happier. Yes, and that’s not always the case, and we’ve got some statistics to share there.
0:20:41 – Speaker 2
We do. A 30-year follow-up study found rates of suicide are nearly 20 times greater among adults who undergo sex reassignment. In Sweden, which is among the most LGBT affirming countries of all the countries, this was cited in the gender dysphoria in children summary points summarized by the American College of Pediatricians. It’s a scary statistic.
0:21:04 – Speaker 3
It’s a very scary statistics. And then think about this, the young gender professionals. Here’s a quote from the American Psychiatric Association as many of 98% of gender confused boys and 88% of gender confused girls eventually accept their biological sex after naturally passing through puberty. Yes, so the majority of people now listen, but if you’ve already started them on drugs to change their sex but then they’re going to go back, that creates some confusion there, big time, big time, even more than before.
And, kim, there’s one thing that I got to talk about too, because I’m seeing this message a lot to our kids and I’m hearing it from my own kids Well, I feel different, yes, and so something must be off. Here’s what I tell my kids over and over and over, and you need to be telling your kids this every kid feels different. Yes, at some point in their life, through when you’re going through puberty and your body is changing and you’re seeing the bodies of your other friends change and all of that, you are going to feel different. That does not mean that you’re transgender or even gay. At that point, yes, we’ve got to be careful about thinking well, I’m different, so I must be something.
0:22:23 – Speaker 2
And another part of that, mandy, is being really clear with your kids about what’s normal to feel Outside of feeling different. It feels good to be hugged and given affection by anyone. It does not mean that you have attraction to the same sex, and as logical as that seems, to be an adult or that you need to change your gender.
That seems very basic for us as adults, but imagine, you see, the hormones and the changes and the craziness and the frontal lobe development that’s happening in our kids. And then maybe they just have a very affectionate friend or they’re feeling a certain way it’s releasing endorphins when they’re around this person.
0:22:59 – Speaker 3
Yeah, that doesn’t mean that you need to change your gender, and so we’ve got to walk through those normal feelings as they’re growing up and we have to walk through them, because it’s trendy now to be trans online and they’re seeing it, and so those are the conversations that we really have to have. I had another quote I almost misread it while ago, but it’s from youth gender professionals in 2016. And I think it’s a really great quote. This is what it says we are concerned about the current trend to quickly diagnose and affirm young people as transgender, often setting them down a path toward medical transition. We feel that unnecessary surgeries and or hormonal treatments which have not been proven safe in the long term represent significant risk for young people. Policies that encourage, either directly or indirectly, such medical treatment for young people who may not be able to evaluate the risk and benefits are highly suspect in our opinion. Again, that’s from the youth gender professionals in 2016. It’s a great quote.
And all of the, all of those statistics that we’ve shared today. They’re in my book and you can look at the back and get exactly. Go look it up for yourself if you want to read those, those, that information. But there’s one other thing, cam, I keep talking because I’m really passionate about this. Yes, absolutely. Um, there are real kids struggling and they’re getting lost in the debate.
We’re so upset about the bathrooms and the locker rooms and whatever that these kids are going to bed at night, you know, crying to themselves because people aren’t understanding them. And we have to remember default to love even when we don’t understand, even when we don’t agree. We have got to get this right as Christian parents.
0:24:49 – Speaker 2
We need to focus on the hurting and sometimes we get caught up in the legal and the debates and, and I’m right, because of this reason, and if there’s a kid in your neighborhood, if it’s in your own family, in the school, they need our help, they need love. They need love, not judgment. Yeah.
0:25:08 – Speaker 3
For our wrap up segment today, let’s remember one teach love. Your kids need to see you love people who are different than you. Default to love. To teach truth, Kids need to know that God makes us male or female. Three understand that everyone’s story is unique. Each person matters to God, no matter what.
0:25:32 – Speaker 1
Thanks for joining us on nextTalk radio with Mandy and Kim every Saturday at 10 am on AM 6 30 the word. You are not alone trying to figure out how to parent in this digital world. We are here with practical solutions to help you. Follow us on Facebook, Instagram and Twitter. Find our free video series and podcast at nextTalk. Or are you ready for the next time?
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