0:00:02 – Speaker 1
Welcome to the nextTalk podcast, where we share real stories and practical advice for parenting the digital world.
0:00:09 – Speaker 2
We’re your hosts, Mandy and Kim. Mandy is an award-winning author and the founder of nextTalk, and I’m the director of nextTalk, a nonprofit organization created to strengthen families through open communication. You can check out all of our resources at NextTalkorg.
0:00:24 – Speaker 1
We’re wives, moms and friends tackling culturally relevant topics from a Christian perspective. We’re sharing what we’ve learned and where we’ve failed. We’re so glad you’re here for this conversation.
0:00:37 – Speaker 2
So today it is just me. Mandy is not with us, because we have a very special guest that I have the privilege and honor to interview and share with you, although you know her already from online groups, and she is a part of our nextTalk team and she’s at all of our events. But what you may not know about her is that she is now a published author, so it is my pleasure to welcome Kim Nichols to our show. Thank you so much for being here.
0:01:06 – Speaker 3
Thank you for having me. I love being on these and just getting to chat with you, as we’ve already been doing.
0:01:13 – Speaker 2
We chatted for way too long before Lots to catch up on. You’ve been doing so much with nextTalk and just in your life. This is like a new chapter and I’m just so proud of you and so excited about this book. The book is called Love Rises The Journey from Fear to Love-Focused Parenting, and it’s excellent, well done, thank you. Thanks so much. Well, for the few people that don’t know you very well, tell us a little bit about your past, about your family, and then we’ll dig into the book.
0:01:47 – Speaker 3
Okay, well, i’ve been married for 26 years to my husband, Derek. We have three kids. They’re 23, 21, and 16, although my girls next month both have birthdays, so they’ll be 24 and 22, and they both live outside the home. Oldest one is married. Probably people have heard her on the podcast. Cameron talked to you guys about getting married and all those things, and so we’ve got the three kiddos and I’ve been working with nextTalk and on staff with doing admin and event coordinating So I get to connect with people and connect them with the online groups, and I also get to be on some of the online groups and so I really enjoy all of that. And then now the book, so it’s a whole like you said a whole new chapter.
0:02:37 – Speaker 2
A whole new chapter in the book and of your life Yes, close. So at the end we’re going to give you some details. Kim is going to be doing a book study with our online groups, which we do every fall and spring, and those are getting to launch And so you definitely want to consider joining her group. She’s also going to do a group with me, but this book is. She’s going to walk you through it and have a great group that you can be a part of. So we’ll tell you all about the times and dates and where you can find that information and register at the end of the show.
But what I think is so incredible is here you walk through life and you get married and you had to kind of redefine what your communication and your love was going to look like in the way that you shared everything with your husband And then now with your kids, and then that kind of developed into how you related to people and talk to other moms and Bible study, and then eventually God brought all that together with mom talk and the nextTalk. And here we are Right. I mean, i want to hear a little bit about the space of where you met other moms in there, because I think that’s important, but I can see the path that God was weaving in his own time. Yeah, so you come to this point where you get to share your story.
0:03:52 – Speaker 3
Yeah, To look back at the way it’s all played out. it’s just God has had his hands all over it.
0:03:59 – Speaker 2
I want to know kind of the beginning. Where did you start out and what moment happened in your life that was a precipice for the content of this book.
0:04:08 – Speaker 3
Well, i talk a lot in the book about life defining moments and those moments that we all have, positive or negative, that create who we are and how we react to things And we take those things into our adult life and it kind of forms our character and our personality. And so one of my big one was being sexually abused as a child. When I was like elementary ages I kind of had to go back and think about what grade was I in and where did we live and those kinds of things as an adult to look back and really think about how old I was. That for me was a big life defining moment. That sort of surfaced several times as I was growing up And I talk about that in the book of how it affected me trouble with setting boundaries for myself, trouble with trusting people, all of those kinds of things.
And then when I got married, of course that was a whole other relationship that had to be sort of guided through that lens of my abuse and how to get to a healthy place with that. And then as the girls got to be the age that I was when I was abused, that’s when I really started seeing it through the eyes of a parent and how it was affecting me And just my fears of not wanting them to be out of my sight and feeling that need to hover over them and protect them was a big, just sort of light bulb moment for me. I tell the story in the book about when my youngest daughter was invited to a sleepover party and how that was kind of my big moment of really realizing hey, i’ve got to get to a healthy place here.
0:05:52 – Speaker 2
Tell us the story, tell us the story of what happened. It’s a really good one, it’s so vivid still in my mind.
0:05:58 – Speaker 3
It was just a really that moment really kind of surfaced everything. But when I was teaching elementary at the time my husband and I were coming in with I had the girl. It was like you know what the house looks like. It’s like you’re trying to get everybody fed because everybody’s hungry.
So they were sitting down and unloading backpacks at the table and my husband and I were in the kitchen and we were cooking and getting things ready And they were telling us about their day. And I’m sure my little one, my son, was little little So he was like in the high chair doing science experiments with his sippy cup and food. But my youngest I had watched her watch her older sister get invited to parties and she just couldn’t wait for that moment of getting invited to. You know, she’s in school now and making friends And so this was the first like invitation from school, friends in class kind of a thing, And she was so excited. I got invited to a birthday party and I opened up the invitation And as soon as I saw the word sleepover I got tears in my eyes because I knew how uncomfortable I was with that and how it just brought up all this fear of the what ifs.
And that’s where my anxiety goes is well, what if? there? you know a man there that we don’t know And I don’t know this family and the whole, like all the little roller coaster of emotions. And so As soon as I turned to my husband with tears in my eyes and said why do they have to be sleepover parties? These girls are so young, Like she was six, I mean, I really think that was a young age to have a sleepover party, Yeah. But as soon as I said that, she put her little head on her arms and the table and started to cry and she said mommy’s not going to let me go, Oh. And that I’m looking at my husband like, but you know why I feel the way I feel and he and he did, and he. But then I’m looking at her going. Oh, she’s heartbroken, Like I don’t get, she doesn’t get to go have fun with her friends.
And it was just a moment that just sort of started to change the way I had to think about my past And I knew I didn’t want to parent from a place of fear. I just and I had been an elementary school teacher long enough to know I was teaching third grade I knew what these kids were talking about and the things that they were sharing with each other at the lunch table or at recess, when they didn’t really think I was listening to anything, you know. And so I knew I wasn’t going to be destroying their innocence by teaching them things to help them protect themselves when they weren’t with me or when I wasn’t around. And so that’s that moment of I have to reframe my past and what happened to me into something I can use as a strength so that I can help my children protect themselves when I’m not there, Because I don’t want to hover over them, I don’t want to be that overprotective parent, But that’s where the fear was leading me.
0:08:56 – Speaker 2
Well, that moment, i think, is so definitive for us as parents maybe, who were not sexually abused, and thinking well, is this book really for me? I think many of us can remember a moment in our parenting where we made a decision, or almost made a decision, out of fear, right, no matter what the circumstance was, whatever our experience was that defined that or made that seem like a good idea?
0:09:19 – Speaker 3
When I was first married I needed to feel safe And the way I felt safe was building trust with my husband And that was through open communication. We were honest about everything. We always say we’re kind of cards on the all, our cards are on the table, kind of couple, like we just share everything. There’s no guessing game or anything. And for me early on in our marriage that made me feel like I could totally trust him And I felt really safe with him And that was big for me at that point in my life.
And so through the few years that we were married before we had kids, we were kind of working out all those kinks and learning how to communicate like that and be really honest with each other, because neither one of us necessarily came from a home where we were taught that, you know. It was just kind of important to us as a couple And we kind of created that with this moment, like the sleepover moment and other things like that. That kind of brought and triggered my fear And we realized that that’s what we needed to do with our kids. Like I needed them to be able to listen to me, be really open and honest about things. That even felt kind of awkward and icky to talk about And I needed them to be able to come to me and ask me when things felt inappropriate or there were things that they didn’t understand or they heard something or someone made them feel uncomfortable. I needed them to be able to come to me and for me to stay really calm and listen to them and be really present and have that open communication.
0:10:45 – Speaker 2
You’re kind of a mentor, a very young, younger looking than me mentor, but a mentor with older kids. that it was like OK, yeah, this really does work. Open communication and creating safe place and even out of something like you went through, being able to see how that can change everything and how you can work past your fears in order to provide that for your kids has been amazing, really amazing, and I love how you paint that picture in your book kind of that process.
0:11:16 – Speaker 3
I didn’t want it to just be for someone who’s gone through sexual abuse. I knew that, like you said earlier, i knew that there were parents who had other kinds of traumas or other kinds of life defining moments that caused fear in parenting. It’s natural, it’s going to creep in there because you want to protect your kids and you want them to be happy and healthy and loved and always safe, and so it’s just going to happen. So I wanted the book to be more about identifying for yourself, whoever’s reading the book, identifying what those moments are for you personally And I do talk about sexual abuse and how that affected me And so for people who have gone through something similar to that which, unfortunately, when I started sharing my story, i can’t tell you how many stories women and men have shared with me about their own abuse, and a lot of them hadn’t told anybody. Some hadn’t even told their spouse when they were like thank you so much for sharing that. So I knew that that was something that needed to be in the book, but I also knew that there were other ways that I could connect with parents that hadn’t gone through a sexual abuse situation but had their own stuff that was causing them to fear in parenting And it was really about how I learned over the time with the kids to reframe my past experiences and reframe that fear and move from a place of fear based reactions into love focused responses.
And what I meant by love rising over fear was I got to a place with myself where I love my kids too much to parent out of fear, because parenting out of fear was causing them to be fearful of everyone and everything and feel like they had to be close to me or I wanted them to be able to stand up for themselves and know this doesn’t feel right or this is making me feel uncomfortable and know how to handle that when I wasn’t around.
That was kind of where I went with the book and I I love how God’s timing took it from, not even though I heard him say share your story, write the book back when my oldest was in middle school and I did start writing things at the time. I love that he kind of helped me simmer over this so that my stories go from when they’re little and the sleepover story all the way through them, getting through middle school, high school and college and starting to move out of my house because my fear didn’t just go away after that sleepover story and I was like, oh, let’s get to a healthy place and seeking therapy and all of those kinds of things. But your fears are going to just keep creeping back in there, you know, even as all the different little things in the ages and stages of your kids. It creeps back in. But if you’ve already learned to be mindful of it and think of it in a really healthy way, then you can kind of reframe it and reframe it and wait a minute how can I use?
you know this is what the fear is stemming from. How can I use this to help my kid, instead of bubble wrapping them and hovering over them and trying to control everything which isn’t real world? They’re going to grow up and move out of your house. You’re not going to be able to do that and you want them prepared before they’re moving out of your house, right? We talk about that all the time, with different things. at next, talk about your window of kind of training them and helping guide them through certain things. It’s the same thing with parenting from a love focused space.
0:15:00 – Speaker 2
I love so much about what you said and I would say that’s really what my takeaway from the book was my biggest takeaway There were many that whole idea of reframing, because it’s true, and I’m so glad that you said this You get to a point, hopefully a healthy space, where you can see where your fears are stemming from, but not just sitting in that, because then that’s where your parent from, that’s where you love from, that’s where you work from, that’s where you make decisions from.
So it affects so many things and Satan knows that. You know we serve a God of creation, but Satan can’t create, so he uses those same tactics over and over, like I know these are her buttons, or fear buttons. So that idea of showing us how you reframed that in your life and how you turn that into a way of coming from a place of love and being a safe place for your kids really makes your book a safe place for us. It’s a safe place. I mean, it really is a full circle moment. You’ve made your book a safe place for all those women that you talked about or for any of us who have said okay, i need to identify my fears and maybe I haven’t spoken these out and I have to heal from them. First, i have to speak them out, i have to acknowledge them and heal before I can learn how to reframe, and your book offers that safe place to do so, and I think that’s one of the things that makes it so beautiful.
0:16:24 – Speaker 3
Thank you. It kind of came out of me the same way. I like to learn that it just When I started writing I found myself writing about all these different spaces and stories where I had experienced fear in my parenting and how I knew where it was coming from by relating it back to my past. And then at the end of each time I would stop, i would have questions like ask yourself, and so that’s where the questions at the end of each chapter.
they just kind of came out of me like that because I thought you know that’s how I like to learn, like I want to read something but then I want to go deeper. I want, you know, to ask myself some questions, and I feel like that’s how we get better and learn from it. So that my hope also was that you could read this with your spouse, you could read it with another group of moms, you could and start some conversations, because I feel like a lot of times I’ve noticed moms not having these conversations about what their fears are and what they might be parenting out of a space of fear, because we feel guilt or shame for not being the perfect mom or the perfect parent And I feel like we feel like people are going to judge us for the way we’re. You know what I mean. So I really wanted to create something that you could read together and spark some conversations, where it was a safe space And you could get with a group of friends and talk about these are.
These are some of the moments that were kind of life defining for me, and now I see that it’s affecting my parenting in this way or that way and be able to kind of talk through it with someone else, because I feel like, especially for me, keeping my abuse a secret and holding that for so many years. The freedom and the health that comes from just speaking something out loud and sharing it with someone and having your emotions validated is huge, and so that’s why again and again in the book, i’m like talk to somebody, share it with somebody, get with a counselor. I can’t tell you how much it will help.
0:18:34 – Speaker 2
Well, and you sharing all of these different scenarios is what kind of creates that sense of a safe place. It’s like a first step And then walking us through like how did this make me feel, or what do I think about this? I think is that next layer there which is so good, and then you even get down to a practical space. Which I really love too is, even though you know your experience may be different than others, a lot of your practical tips in the book can be applied to all of us when we’re parenting. I would love for you to share some of them. They’re like they’re some on like page 7071 about some things that I think are really great and helpful tips for parents to consider and making it their own and how to help their kids do what you said be strong and brave and speak up.
0:19:23 – Speaker 3
Right. Those were the ones that you’re talking about. I think are the ones that I said I felt like I had to teach my kids early when they were young Yes, i wanted them to kind of be equipped with some tools that, when I wasn’t with them, that they felt like they could stand up for themselves and protect themselves, and so things like trust your gut It was just an easy way of that. You know the Holy Spirit that speaks and goes hmm, something’s not quite right. I was like you know that feeling you kind of get when things just don’t feel right or something feels uncomfortable. Trust that. I don’t want you to diminish that or kind of brush it off like, oh, i want you to really take that seriously and pay attention to that, because that’s a really strong feeling and it’s going to happen for the rest of your life and that will keep you safe in a lot of spaces if you just trust that little gut feeling that you get and don’t brush that off.
0:20:14 – Speaker 2
So that was one of them, that’s one of my favorites because it teaches from a very young age to listen for the Holy Spirit. Yes, you know, and we want that. We want our kids to be listening and then learning that you actually get to have a relationship with the Holy Spirit and that voice can become stronger guidance in your life. And so it’s like planting that initial seed of like listen. Now you know, when you’re young, learn to listen to that. That’s one of my favorite ones.
0:20:38 – Speaker 3
I loved that when they were little, that I could say that trust your gut. And then later, like you said, as they got older it did morph into Holy Spirit moments And I think I say in the book there’s a space where I’m talking about when my kids were adolescents and I was like I can’t protect them. They’re out of my house, like they’re doing I don’t know what. So my prayer was Holy Spirit, speak into them so loudly that they just cannot help but listen. So that was that was trust your gut when they’re toddlers into Holy Spirit, speak so strong that they just can’t help but listen when they’re adolescents, Yes, I love that.
0:21:17 – Speaker 2
That’s so good. What are some other ones that you could?
0:21:19 – Speaker 3
share. Well, beware of anyone who’s trying to manipulate you, trying to ask you to do things that you’re uncomfortable with or you don’t feel are right. We talked about transactional language and manipulation and kind of watching out for that. And I would say someone who’s saying if you do this, i’ll give you this, or if you do this, then you can do that. Like, and I said, it usually starts out as something really simple, that doesn’t seem like a big deal, and they’ll, like, give you something is like a reward, and then it turns into something bigger that maybe doesn’t seem okay anymore or makes you a little more uncomfortable, but they’re trying to give you a reward again for it And that’s transactional. They’re trying to manipulate you.
And so I talked about groomers and what that looked like. You know someone saying, hey, will you send me a picture of you with all your friends, you know, and it changed as they were toddlers into older children, you know, but kind of explaining to them what that might look like. But someone asking you for something that makes you kind of feel uncomfortable, but wanting to give you something as a reward for it is probably not. And that’s one of those like gut check moments of what if that doesn’t feel quite right, you need to kind of get yourself out of that situation.
0:22:40 – Speaker 2
And one that you know we say here at nextTalk anyone that says don’t tell your parents, you know, that’s another one.
0:22:46 – Speaker 3
Yeah that’s one of them on that list too. Anytime I told them from the get go, even if it’s someone, because I was abused by a family member we know statistically, most of the time when a child is sexually abused it is someone they know, either a family or a neighbor or something like that. And out of all the stories who people have shared with me over the years, it has almost always been someone they knew, a babysitter, a friend of relative. So I had to tell my kids that, like even someone like in the family who says don’t tell mom and dad, you immediately tell mom and dad. And there were times like even like how Mandy’s talked about in her presentations there were times when my parents told them oh, don’t tell your mom that or whatever you know, and it was something very innocent and no big deal, but I still had wanted them to tell me that and had to say you know, thank you, always tell me, don’t ever keep it a secret. So that was, that was a big one that I needed to get across to them early on, when they were little And again, age appropriate ways that weren’t scary, weren’t make them afraid of all of our family members or friends.
But just right. You have to know your kid and know kind of what resonates with them. But in a way that I found that kids always if that you come from the standpoint of you’re trying to help protect them and keep them safe, they get that it doesn’t seem as scary to them. They understand when your language is. I want you to be able to stand up for yourself and keep yourself safe even when I’m not there. So that doesn’t mean everybody’s a scary person, but it means you need to really pay attention.
0:24:28 – Speaker 2
Throughout your book I see so many similarities to things that you’ve shared with me, And one of my favorite things that you’ve said from for years now that I’ve heard you say is being able to look back in your parenting, especially when you’re feeling fearful or you’re thinking about how do I handle this situation. Being able to look back at yourself at that age and what you would have needed, I think is so powerful, And when you share that with me, it’s something that I’ve really thought. It’s really helped me not to parent in fear, because sometimes the fear causes a reaction that messes up the relationship between me and my kid, And so if I’m able to put myself in their shoes and remember being that age or feeling the way they’re feeling what did I need in that moment and then react in that way, It really changes everything.
0:25:15 – Speaker 3
Yeah, that has been one of my biggest tools is the empathy you can get from looking back at yourself and thinking back from when you were a little little kid to when you’re an adolescent Like what did I need in that moment, what would have helped me most in that moment? And then reframing that and thinking what will help my kids the most right now? How can I help them the most? Because, like you said, our knee jerk reaction when fear hits us is to grab them up Like you just want to grab them and scream and whatever. You’re scared. You know that’s what fear does. But if you can get to a space where you’re healthier with your past and you can reframe it enough to be mindful all the time and you feel it coming And that doesn’t mean you’re not going to react quickly when fear hits. But I think if you’re mindful of it, you can very quickly flip it for yourself and come back to that calm space and know, okay, what’s going to help my kid right now the most? And I think that’s really important to keep mindful of all the time.
0:26:23 – Speaker 2
Absolutely Thinking about your book and I mean what a wonderful accomplishment like having a fourth child. What do you want most for people to take away from reading? love rises.
0:26:38 – Speaker 3
I really my hope for it is one. I hope that the parents who get a hold of it when their kids are still really little that it becomes something that can kind of travel with them through the ages and stages of raising their kids. Like, my hope is that when parents get it really early on, it’s something that they can kind of refer back to, because my stories go from young to when my children were my children.
You know what I mean. Like, i that’s my hope that they can go back. And well, i’m not, i’m not to this space yet, but when I get here I can come back and read this again or revisit my answers to these questions, kind of a thing that it kind of travels.
0:27:15 – Speaker 2
It’s kind of a journal, right? Yeah, i think that’s that makes sense, because you can put your answers in there and your thoughts and that can grow with you, which so I love the way you laid it out that way.
0:27:26 – Speaker 3
Yeah, that’s, that’s one of my hopes for it.
And then the other one that’s big, is just.
I’m hoping that it helps parents get to a healthy headspace and get with a therapist if that’s what they need and look at those moments that define their lives and realize that I felt like I carried around like a big bag of garbage on my shoulder for years and years and years and finally setting it down and sifting through all of the yucky stuff with someone that could put me, help me put it in healthy spaces so that I could just live from a healthier space but work in all of my relationships and then in my parenting when I had kids. My hope is that people will use it to get to that healthy space and then be able to see it differently and do that reframing of their fear and to love focused parenting, and it will help them as adults but then also, in turn, help their kiddos, because it’ll help them create that really safe space of trust and open communication in their families that I’ve seen over the years work so beautifully with my own kids, and that’s my hope is that it helps families create that space.
0:28:44 – Speaker 2
Kim, i love that and I really, as you were saying, that I had this image because your book really is the part of nextTalk. You know, when we look at talking to people about how you create this culture of open communication, your book is really that first part where we say you have to look in the mirror. Step one is you have to look in the mirror. Your book is that process of looking in the mirror and doing the hard work and journaling through and you know, getting the help you need with your issues and your fears and or whatever it may be, so that, like you said, your hope, people can begin to do what we teach them in nextTalk about creating that culture of open communication and all those next steps.
0:29:26 – Speaker 3
That’s like the daily work you know of digging in with our kids and that’s like the launching pack and and that is really I think Mandy says that’s the hardest part the looking in the mirror part, and and it really is, and I feel like that’s it.
That’s what makes it scary to like, seek a therapist or seek out someone you can let it all out and talk, talk it through with and get to a healthy space, because you just see it as oh, i just want to put that over here in this box and not think about it, but it it’s a weight. Like I said, i felt like it was a big giant trash bag full of yucky stuff that I hauled around with me for years. That wasn’t healthy for me and it, and no matter how much you try to shove those kinds of emotions down, they bubble up and it’s normally when you least expect it and the most inopportune time, but that’s when it happens, and so I really hope that this is a helpful tool to help people see, getting to the other side of it is it feels so good to just let it all out, work through it, do the hard work and get to a healthy space, and I think it creates a beautiful family dynamic when you can get that honest, open communication going with your kiddos.
0:30:42 – Speaker 2
Amen, sister, listen, before we tell people where they can get your book and about your online group, at the end of your book you have a section called the remember when list and you speak about it kind of I don’t remember if it was the last chapter or the one before about the concept, but I think it’s really important too, so share a little bit about that and then I’ll tell everyone where they can get your resources.
0:31:04 – Speaker 3
So I was having a conversation with a friend one time and I don’t remember I think we were talking about either being grandparents or mother-in-laws or it was the you know conversation of well, i just never want to do that. Or I loved when my grandmother did this and she said I have a remember when journal and I write these things down so that I can look back at it later when my kids are older or whatever. And I’m in that stage of life and I can remember those things and I thought that is brilliant because I had already some of these stories. You know, my grandmother I have my dad’s mom was so present with me, like she was just right there in your face, listened to all your stories. She wanted to hear about all my friend.
Like she was so present and I remember thinking I want to be that way with my kids, i want to be that way with my grandkids and so just little things like that over the years that made that made me go. Oh, i never want to make someone feel like that. Or oh, my neighbor is so thoughtful, i want to be more like that. You know just little things and I would just jot them down. So it just seemed like a good part of the book to put some space in there for people to start writing things down when especially since it was such a broad range of ages and stages, the stories I was sharing and the you know, the how I’ve kind of talked about. I want it to be the something that can kind of travel with people and they can refer back to. I thought, well, i’m going to put a space in there.
0:32:34 – Speaker 2
So if you wanted to use that as your remember when list you could and start writing down you know, the things you want to remember to do as a friend, as a mom, as a grandmother, as a mother-in-law, Well, and as you’re looking, doing this, looking in the mirror part of the process of creating a culture of open communication and having a love-focused parenting versus the fear parenting then I think, as we become more healthy this is kind of how I imagined it in my mind too As we become more healthy, there’s space to do those things that we said I never want to do that, or I do want to do that, or I want to do better at that. It frees up space to become a better version of you, and sometimes we forget the things that we wanted to do to make us a better version of us, and so I feel like it’s really perfectly placed at the end, as we walk through this journey with you and do the work ourselves, and then keep it in a journal, like you said, and be able to refer back, and it’s like a refining list of making yourself the best version of yourself. But all that to say you got to get the book. It’s so good, love it, i’m so proud of you. Like I said, i can’t say it enough. I know it’s such a big deal to be transparent and share your life And I know it’s already helped so many people.
First of all. You can get it on Amazon. You can also get it on our website, nexttalkorg. And then, of course we were talking about this earlier here at nextTalk we do online groups which are free to the first people that sign up, and we usually cap them out at 20. And so it fills up really quick And we are offering four different groups this semester.
They are starting very, very soon. So if you are interested in doing a book study of Love Rises Kim Nichols book that we just talked about, along with her, and again, you do not have to have experienced sexual abuse. This is a book about, like we said, looking in the mirror and becoming a parent who does not parent out of fear, and so we can all use that, we can all learn from that. And if you want to be in her group, you can again go to our website. That’s probably the easiest thing to do.
We’ll also have it blasted on social media, but on our website, if you go to parents support and then look under groups and at the bottom of the page you’ll see the four different groups we’re offering for the spring And you’ll see Kim Nichols book study there and a link to buy the book. So you’re ready for the class And I highly recommend it. I think it’s going to be a great class and get the book either way, because it’s worth the read for sure. Thank you for being on the show, kim. It was so great to hear from you and hear about your book And, again, i’m just really proud of you.
0:35:16 – Speaker 3
Thank you. Thank you for having me. This was great just to kind of have this conversation and get to share about more about what’s in the book.
0:35:23 – Speaker 2
Let me know when you write the next one.
0:35:27 – Speaker 3
Okay, we’ll see That was an undertaking. So yes, i’ll give you a minute, yeah. All right, thanks, kim, thank you.
0:35:36 – Speaker 1
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0:35:48 – Speaker 2
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0:35:59 – Speaker 1
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0:36:05 – Speaker 2
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Transcribed by https://podium.page
