0:00:00 – Speaker 1
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0:00:49 – Speaker 2
Today’s show is about vulnerability. I don’t even want to say the word, it’s a big one.
0:00:54 – Speaker 3
Mmm, I feel like out of vulnerability comes so much Like beautiful things. Yeah, you know I’m thinking like love and forgiveness, improving ourselves, being able to look and hear feedback and take it and adjust ourselves. But also hurts can come out of vulnerability. You know, you can put yourself out there, you can get rejected, people can leave you. So I feel like it’s this, it’s so important, but I think people are so scared of it.
0:01:20 – Speaker 2
I think maybe yes, and not sure how to really navigate it, like, what does it mean to be vulnerable and how vulnerable should I be? How do I protect myself but still put myself out there? I mean, I really feel, and I think you’d agree with me, that if we can get to this place of healthy vulnerability, we really become better people. We’re better spouses, better parents, better friends. But it’s getting there. That’s the struggle.
0:01:43 – Speaker 3
Yeah, and you know, when I think about being vulnerable, I think about two extremes. Okay. So one is wearing your heart on your sleeve, you know, and like letting everybody’s opinion affect you, and you’re just so like basically open to all the darts and all the criticism and all the compliment, everything just goes, you take it in right. So there’s that extreme, okay. And then I feel like the other extreme is those people that are like hardened walls up, won’t let anybody in.
0:02:15 – Speaker 2
Yeah, I mean that’s kind of yes.
0:02:17 – Speaker 3
And I mean, quite frankly, I used to be the hardened side. Yeah, I think a lot of times our past affects that, like where we fall always, always For me. You know my my parents divorced when I was three and you know that came with a lot of just triggers for me being left and re and I felt rejected, even though I know it wasn’t about me. Now you feel that way as a kid when your parents get divorced, you feel like it’s your fault and so I think because of that in my trust issues, it was just easier for me to put walls up and so being vulnerable to me was just not a luxury I could afford. Yeah, you know what.
0:03:00 – Speaker 2
I mean, it’s not a safe place.
0:03:01 – Speaker 3
I think a lot of people feel that way and I feel I honestly feel like I spent the first 20 years of my life with these walls up and I feel like I missed out on life. I honestly do. I feel like I miss out on life lessons and being able to let my guard down, just all sorts of things that I’m discovering now in life and I’m like this is amazing. Yeah, it’s like a whole new new world. When you’re able to let your let your guard down and you have to be careful with this you can’t be on the other. You can. You can’t swing the pendulum and wear your heart on your sleeve and let everybody in. You cannot do that, because you do need to protect yourself. But finding a healthy balance in the middle of these two extremes, I think, is just life changing really.
0:03:44 – Speaker 2
Why does everything have to be about balance, so many balances, but it’s true, I mean, you’re absolutely right, mandy and I. What we’re going to do today is focus on three different ways that we can be vulnerable in these spaces that really are life changing. We’re going to talk about with God, with our family, like our spouse and our kids, and with our friends. Those three main areas and I just have to go back to what you were saying about your dad, because it’s really bizarre. We grew up in totally different areas, had totally different upbringings, but we both have the same story of literally sitting on the steps waiting for our dads and they didn’t show up, and we handled it differently. So you like, shut down the wall, you didn’t allow yourself to become vulnerable because you didn’t want to be hurt again.
0:04:27 – Speaker 3
Well and I acted out, I mean, and I had close friends, but I don’t feel like anybody really truly knew me. There were walls that, yes, there were. There were places that I just would not allow people because of it, and how did you react?
0:04:39 – Speaker 2
Well, I feel like I kind of did this roller coaster Like. At first I thought I have to let everybody in because nobody wants me, not even my own dad, that’s interesting so I was completely vulnerable, especially with boys and and and male figures, and I don’t mean that in a sexual way, just wanting that attention because my dad wasn’t around.
0:04:59 – Speaker 3
Yeah, I went through that phase, for sure. So I was overly vulnerable with friends, like whatever they said when I, when I was like that in my mind I was, I did seek attention from boys, and well, from anybody really that would give it to me, but I always felt like they don’t really know me because I wouldn’t ever really let them in, even if they wanted to get to know me, and so it was kind of like a fake vulnerability sort of thing.
0:05:26 – Speaker 2
Yeah, you know what I mean.
0:05:27 – Speaker 3
Like that’s what I yeah.
0:05:29 – Speaker 2
I can see that. And then I for myself, like I let everybody in and see everything and let me tell you my whole story and I was just super vulnerable. And then I got hurt and I realized, well, this isn’t a good space, and then I shut it down and I just became very much like I’ll keep everybody out here at a distance, especially friendships, and so I missed that whole phase through college.
0:05:53 – Speaker 3
So you feel like you miss some too?
0:05:54 – Speaker 2
Yes, because I was like I can’t let anybody close to me, not one person. And so again, here I am, in my 40s. I’m younger than you, way younger, but wait a minute.
0:06:06 – Speaker 3
You’re not just going to say that on the air and move on. You’re like two years younger than me.
0:06:11 – Speaker 2
I don’t even think it’s that you act like I’m a mentor or something. You’re like my mentor, mom Mandy.
0:06:16 – Speaker 3
I am two years older than you. Missing. You’re so wise.
0:06:21 – Speaker 2
You’re so wise, I’m going to get the finger and you’re going to slap me on the head with the sock. Not the middle finger guys.
0:06:27 – Speaker 3
I’m getting all the fingers. No, the index finger pointing at her. I’m pointing at her. That sounded bad when we said the finger. I had to clarify that for a listener.
0:06:35 – Speaker 2
But I mean seriously. Here we are older ladies and we’re just now experiencing some of the joy and the gift of vulnerability in a healthy way, and I don’t want my kids to miss out on this. Amen.
0:06:47 – Speaker 3
I want to be able to teach them how to be vulnerable in the right places. In the right places, yes, because I don’t want them to miss out on life like I did. I really don’t, and you know, looking back on my life, I can honestly say the first person that I was, that I literally let see Mandy the real Mandy was my husband. Yeah, and I’ll never forget it. I was kind of forced into it.
This is kind of a funny story and I literally just came from Virginia where I spoke and I shared this story for the first time and it was hilarious. I mean, people thought it was funny, so. So I worked at a grocery store in college.
0:07:23 – Speaker 2
My mom worked at a grocery store, my husband was Kebler boy, yes, okay, so he worked for Kebler in college and he would go around, which is funny because those are like elves and your husband’s like 80 feet tall, he’s like 64.
0:07:35 – Speaker 3
Yes, so one day he came into my grocery store and the florist called me on my. She was like, mandy, pick up on the red line. Picked up the red line and she’s like, hey, kebler boy is interested. And I was like, dude, go out with him. He is cute, like I’ve seen him. He’s tall, like go out with him. She’s like, no, he’s interested in you. And I was like, send him on up here through my line.
0:08:03 – Speaker 2
So I’m so sassy back there.
0:08:06 – Speaker 3
I had already sworn off guys, so I was like this isn’t going anywhere, whatever You’re about to set him straight, whatever right. So he comes through my line and he buys, like a people magazine and a snickers or something you know, and this is what this is going to really make me sound old. This is when it was cool to say can I have your digits? You’re like 80. Do you remember that, when it was like give me your digits later?
0:08:32 – Speaker 2
He’s so creepy, give me your digits later he didn’t say it like that. Or Matt.
0:08:40 – Speaker 3
He had this he had this cute little way. He said it right, but he’s like give me your digits. So I actually gave him my phone number and I was like where you going next, like what’s your next store? And he’s like, oh, I’m going over to this grocery store. I’m like that’s where my mom works.
0:08:54 – Speaker 2
That was mistake number one, so let me tell you what happened.
0:08:57 – Speaker 3
So he goes over there and he literally goes and meets my mom, ask my mom if he could take me on on a date, right, and she proceeds to tell him how angelic and perfect and like I’ve done nothing wrong kind of thing. So I’m not joking. We go out on our first date. We’re literally getting shaved Hawaiian ice.
0:09:22 – Speaker 2
That’s what we did on our first date you said we’re literally getting shaved and I was like that’s a weird first date girl.
0:09:26 – Speaker 3
No, no, no, not shaved our bodies, the shaved Hawaii ice, shaved ice, shaved ice. Yes. So he’s telling me. I have waited my whole life for a perfect girl like you make good decisions. He’s telling me all this.
0:09:41 – Speaker 2
I’m only mad because I know about Mandy, because it’s like the opposite.
0:09:47 – Speaker 3
So I’m like, oh my goodness, what am I going to do? Like I’m my best, like I’ve made all sorts of mistakes and he doesn’t know anything and he thinks I’m perfect. And this isn’t fair. This is not fair to him, right? Bless my mom’s heart. She thought it was perfect, she was trying and so fast forward to our third date. I was like I got to tell him like. I got to come clean, I got to be honest. So I literally wore white to the date so that I looked more pure.
I wanted to look a little more pure in my right. And my friend was making that is hilarious. I called my friend and my friend was like just don’t tell him. Just I’m like it’s just not fair Like I need to come. He thinks I’m perfect, I’m not perfect, so so here I am, having to be vulnerable for the first time in my life. I was sweating like I had huge sweat stains on my white shirt, like I didn’t know what.
0:10:42 – Speaker 2
I was.
0:10:42 – Speaker 3
I mean, it was a hot mess. And here I like told him everything, like I was like listen, I know my mom thinks I’m perfect and I know she told you all this stuff and you’ve been waiting for this girl Like in air quotes, this perfect girl for your whole life yeah, I’m not that. And so I literally like told him all this stuff, like stuff I had never told anyone.
0:11:04 – Speaker 2
On your third date. Because, I thought it was fair Packing up your bag Like I’m about to leave now because he doesn’t want me.
0:11:10 – Speaker 3
I literally was getting ready and he looked at me and he was like you know, God still loves you, right? And those words literally, I feel like, changed my life. It literally made me want to know Jesus more. Like I’m not joking, Because I was like that’s the Jesus I want. I don’t want this Jesus that I grew up with, that’s kind of hypocritical and judgmental. That’s the Jesus I need and that put me on a new path towards God and like now it’s built, this amazing marriage. I didn’t know, but I keep thinking. When I especially when I was we were talking about this show, I kept thinking what if I wouldn’t have allowed myself to be vulnerable with him.
0:11:49 – Speaker 2
Can you imagine this life you would have missed out on?
0:11:53 – Speaker 3
My kids, your kids your marriage.
We have to be vulnerable with people. When God says, be vulnerable, like we have to be vulnerable and I think that gets us to our point one it really had to start with me being vulnerable and real with myself and that’s with God. Like me and God were one, he’s in me. But I had to literally say, no matter what this boy says, like I have to get real. I have done all these things, I’ve got to come clean and I got to get vulnerable, and it was almost like my way of getting real with God too, even though he knew it all. We really, until we speak it out loud, sometimes we think, oh, that’s buried and that’s, it’s fine.
0:12:36 – Speaker 2
No one needs to know.
0:12:37 – Speaker 3
And so being real with God. This is the core of everything. It is.
0:12:43 – Speaker 2
It’s everything we talk about here, where everything starts being able to look in the mirror and see you. See yourself as God sees you, which is loved and holy and forgiven, but also see that within all of that are the flaws that to coexist. He doesn’t hold you to a standard where you can never be good enough. He says I will cover those for you, I will walk you through transformation, I love you despite those things, I know them and I can use you, and there is nothing else that feels like a miracle, nothing that feels more like a miracle than that when you realize you can still be used by God, still loved, and he knows it all. So having that moment where you can just be honest about it is the start of something beautiful in all of your relationships.
0:13:34 – Speaker 3
Well, and I think for me as a Christian, before I really knew Jesus, it was hard for me to admit my faults because everything depended on my behavior. It was all about Mandy’s good or Mandy’s bad because of what I’m doing. And when you move out of that space and you realize, oh my gosh, jesus died for all of it, it kind of sets you free to the point where you can literally look in the mirror and be like it’s okay if I’m a hot mess, he still loves me. It’s okay if I did that when I was 16. He still loves me, he still has a plan for my life, he can still use this right, and so it just changes everything. And so if we don’t get this right, our other relationships is gonna be hard to be vulnerable and be real.
0:14:22 – Speaker 2
Absolutely. It’s the starting point where we have to begin and it’s the example that we need. It’s an example that we need that if we’re real and honest and open with God, then we realize he’s not going to leave us.
0:14:36 – Speaker 3
You can trust him.
0:14:37 – Speaker 2
He’s right there in it. We can trust him, and that’s the kind of love we need to model for our kids when it comes to vulnerability.
0:14:44 – Speaker 3
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0:15:11 – Speaker 1
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0:15:37 – Speaker 3
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0:15:44 – Speaker 2
Today we’re talking about vulnerability and how it’s a really difficult balance not to be completely open to the world but also not completely shut down. And where that all starts is, first, our vulnerability with God Just being open and honest about who we are and what we’ve done, and having that realization moment that he loves us despite he died for us despite and once we get that, it really bleeds over into all of our other relationships. What really brings us to point two having a vulnerable state with our family, our spouse and our kids. Being vulnerable with them is so important to building this safe place in our homes.
0:16:21 – Speaker 3
Well, and I think sometimes this is hard because we get busy and we get in the daily of life and sometimes God may be saying hey, I need you to tell your spouse that you feel this way and you’re like. I don’t have time for that. That’s silly that I even feel that way, or whatever. But you let it go and then it turns into something bigger than what it is, and so I think we have to be really careful here.
0:16:41 – Speaker 2
Yeah, I know with my kids, I think right away. I came from a single mom who was very strong. She has like three master’s degrees. She created her own company. I mean she’s just a powerhouse kind of a person. She was like the president of the PTA. At every game she did all the things. In my mind on the outside she was doing all the things and so I guess, for some reason, what I took from that is that as the parent, I need to know it all and be able to do it all and be the leader and get it all right, be super mom, be super mom, that’s what you’re saying.
Yeah, and I don’t think that I ever verbally said that, but somewhere in my mind that’s what it meant to be a parent. And so when I actually had kids, oh, it’s a little different. And I remember when my kids were little, thinking like I know what’s right and wrong and I know all the things and you will listen to me and this is how it’s gonna go. And then they started to get older and I had this come to Jesus moment, you know, with looking in the mirror and I realized, wait a minute, I don’t know all the things. I am still learning how to be a parent and it’s actually okay to be vulnerable with my kids. I bet they could learn something from that.
And it’s never been more apparent than when I started homeschooling, because I really don’t know all the things. And we have had many moments where I wanna say to my kids this is what it is and it’s right, and I need you to believe me because I am 40. Like, that’s my thing. I’m 40 and I know something. And most of the time it’s not the case.
And what I’ve learned is, when I say you know what, I have no idea what that means. I have no idea what we’re doing right now. Do you know? And half the time they know and they get to teach me, and I’m like this was a struggle for me in school too, and I really appreciate that you’re not judging me and that you’re showing me how to do this thing, even though you’re only in third grade, and that vulnerable moment where I can say like I don’t know all the things, I’ve had experiences with this, but I really need your help, has opened the door for them to be vulnerable with me and their shortcomings and feel like it’s still a safe place, like I’m not gonna judge them, and so I think it’s a hard lesson to learn that it’s okay not to get it all right and to share that with your kids.
0:18:51 – Speaker 3
I think it’s so important, and just silly things too, that you’re feeling. You know, a couple months ago I don’t know how long ago it was I literally was scrolling through Facebook and I got like jealous of husbands surprising their wives.
0:19:08 – Speaker 2
I remember that.
0:19:09 – Speaker 3
And I was like why doesn’t Matt do that? Like all the things were going through my head, like he’s not romantic. I mean Satan was throwing all these darts, like he would never do that. And I felt this prompting to tell him. But then I was like it’s gonna hurt his feelings, like how do I even bring this up, mandy? This is stupid. Like it’s just a Facebook problem, right? So I got off Facebook for a week but I was still feeling it, like I was like oh my gosh. So I literally went to him again. It’s that vulnerability state. And I said to him listen, this is gonna sound silly and I know it sounds like I’m in high school, but I just need to tell you this. This is how I’m feeling. And I said I don’t know where this is coming from.
And it was great he received it well. And he was like well, honey, I don’t surprise you with that kind of stuff, because you get mad because it’s not in the budget. And then you know I’m a control freak with the budget. So we had this great conversation and we came up with new boundary, like a new system, a new process, and I’m like listen, I don’t want the $150 floral delivery. Just stop at Costco and get the $20 ones. That’s what, that’s what I love. And so now he does that, like on random occasions, and it just makes my heart burst. And again I think, what if I wouldn’t have been vulnerable with him and just telling him my feelings so we could talk it out? What if I would have just said he’s not like that and I’d have to live with it?
0:20:29 – Speaker 2
I think that’s what we do a lot of times and I want to point out here how you were vulnerable. I think that’s very important If you had approached him and said why don’t you bring me flowers?
0:20:40 – Speaker 3
Yes, judgmental, crazy wife mode, it wouldn’t have gone well.
0:20:45 – Speaker 2
No, vulnerability is accepting how you’re feeling and presenting it in a vulnerable way, Like I know this sounds crazy. I don’t even understand it.
0:20:54 – Speaker 3
I was literally blushing when I said it, because I felt stupid.
0:20:57 – Speaker 2
Like I felt like a two-year-old. Like I can’t even know Facebook.
0:21:01 – Speaker 3
But I was having all these feelings and I knew Satan was trying to use it to get in there and hurt my marriage, and so I was like I got to speak this out, Like I got to talk to him about it and the more you do it, it gives the people in your inner circle your kids, your dear friends, your husband permission to do that with you Like.
0:21:18 – Speaker 2
The more that we practice this, it becomes normal under our roof and with our friends, so that we are constantly being open and honest about where we’re at, we’re being vulnerable in our safe spaces.
0:21:27 – Speaker 3
Well, and then we can be vulnerable with our friends. You know that is moving into kind of point three here and in my book I talk about. You know, kind of like a bullseye Jesus is in the middle and then it’s like your family, your spouse and your kids, and then it’s like your inner circle friends and then outside of that maybe your outer circle friends and then outside of that maybe your social media friends, you know, but I think this is so healthy to model, especially, you know, going back to the beginning, of the show when.
I said we missed out on this as a kid like learning how to do this. So like what? If we can help our kids learn how to be vulnerable in the correct spaces, because we have to be careful with this. You know we can’t just say to our kids be vulnerable. That’s dangerous.
Because then they’re gonna go to social media and look for their worth or they’re gonna go, you know, to their friends and see how they’re dressing and look for their worth there. And we have to guard that. I love Proverbs 13, 20,. It says become wise by walking with the wise, hang out with fools and watch your life fall to pieces. We gotta be careful. And Proverbs 4, 23 says guard your heart above all else. And so we do have to guard our heart, but at the same time we have to be real and vulnerable. When we have a safe place.
0:22:41 – Speaker 2
You know, when you do find a few of these real special and rare trusted friends, they help you filter the world through the eyes of Jesus. They do. I love that. You know it’s so easy with just any person. If you’re venting like, let’s say, something happens with Charles and I’m like, oh my gosh, this happened. This, that and the other, the world or not, a trusted inner circle friend would be like yes, leave him. Why are you even doing his laundry Like?
0:23:08 – Speaker 3
step out. You’re not a slave. Yeah, that’s what the world would say, you’re too good for him, yeah women don’t do laundry anymore.
0:23:16 – Speaker 2
Mm-mm, yes. And so that was what the world would say If I called my inner circle trusted friend that I could be vulnerable with. They would say I hear you and I know you’re hurting, but let’s talk about all the great things that he does and maybe something’s going on at work or maybe he’s struggling with something. They bring you back and look at, they help you, look at your spouse or the situation through the eyes of Jesus and that grace and that love that is missing in that moment. They’re like come on, come on back and they help you. Recenter.
0:23:44 – Speaker 3
Well, and that’s such a gift, and that recentering is often, it kind of looks like well, isn’t this how your roles are set up? He works all this outside of the home and if you want to reevaluate that, then go to him and talk to him about it, but that’s kind of how your roles are.
Going back to the laundry thing, I’m gonna stuck on the laundry Because that’s where I get. I’m like, oh my gosh, but yeah, your friends will help you see the world through the filter of Jesus. I love that and let me just encourage you if you’re like I don’t have that, friends, it’s okay. Like it literally. I feel like I haven’t. It’s been now Like literally to where I can put my boundary down and really be me and be vulnerable to people and go to our Finding your Tribe show. That’s a good show. It talks about characteristics to look for in an inner circle, friend, and what you need to look for in that. I guess what I wanna say is even when you’re vulnerable, your spouse may leave, your friend may betray you it all goes back to that point one you gotta have God by your side, like. He is the rock, he is the foundation and he will never leave you.
People are not gonna be perfect, even the people that you have designated as your safe place. Okay. So, parents, sometimes you’ve betrayed the trust of your kids and you’ve posted stuff on social media. You’ve betrayed that trust. We’re not perfect. You go, you’re vulnerable, you apologize, you repair the relationship, and so this is why vulnerability is so important. We gotta get it right so that we can be better people and better parents and better spouses.
0:25:24 – Speaker 2
Model that for our kids. It’s such a huge lesson. Point one, just a reminder being vulnerable with yourself and God can strengthen your faith and grow your character. Being vulnerable with your spouse and kids can create a healthy culture in your home. And then three being vulnerable with your carefully selected friends. That inner circle can help you filter the world through the eyes of Jesus.
0:25:48 – Speaker 1
Thanks for joining us on nextTalk Radio with Mandy and Kim on AM 630, the Word. You are not alone trying to figure out how to parent in this digital world. We are here with practical solutions to help you. Follow us on Facebook, Instagram and Twitter. Find our video series and podcast at nexttalkorg. Are you ready for the nextTalk?
Transcribed by https://podium.page
