0:00:00 – Speaker 1
nextTalk contains content of a mature nature. Parental guidance is advised.
0:00:30 – Speaker 2
Are you ready for the nextTalk?
0:00:34 – Speaker 1
Today’s show is about grooming.
0:00:36 – Speaker 3
This is a really serious topic, something that we need to continually discuss. In January is Human Trafficking Awareness Month, so we really thought it would be good to wrap up our January shows with this one.
0:00:50 – Speaker 1
Yeah, and although it takes many different forms and we’re gonna discuss those the most important thing is to take the time to educate your kid on what grooming looks like. That’s the best way that we can prevent more sex trafficking issues.
0:01:02 – Speaker 3
Absolutely, You know. I think of a scale of zero to ten, you know, and ten is where bad things happen, Yeah, and that may be sex trafficking or pornography addiction or you know really bad things. Yeah, And what we’re trying to do at nextTalk is prevent that at a one, two and three by preventative conversations. So that’s what grooming is. It’s a way to prevent sex trafficking, It’s a way to prevent your kid being sexually abused.
0:01:28 – Speaker 1
Yeah, absolutely. I mean, i think one of the things that we don’t realize is that grooming can take place in so many different ways, And if we don’t talk to our kids about it, then they may be in a grooming situation and have no idea. You’ve never presented this concept to them, and so it just happens much easier than we think.
0:01:47 – Speaker 3
Yeah, and let’s talk about that. I feel like we need to look at this from a situation like an, an in-person grooming situation versus an online situation. Yes, because online takes many forms and so does in-person, but I think there’s some key things that we can look for in both areas, that we can dive into the show and really help parents learn how this happens, how the manipulation takes place, and that’s going to help them. If they can understand that, it’s going to help them with the conversations with their kids.
0:02:15 – Speaker 1
Okay, so let’s start out. Like you said, we’re talking about the difference with the online thing. I think we have to kind of rewind a little bit and talk about some things that we need to do in our home to set them up for being safe when they’re with people.
0:02:29 – Speaker 3
Like in person, in person, face-to-face people. And here’s what I want to tell you parents I think that we do a really good job of saying things like keep your private parts private and don’t let anybody touch your private parts, right, don’t let any bad people. That’s kind of what we say. Don’t let any bad people touch your private parts. Okay, when we say that our kids often picture like the scary green monster, right, the bad person. That’s what they picture. Research tells us that most kids who are abused in person are people they know. Like face-to-face grooming happens. It’s going to be people you know.
So, it’s going to be people like your neighbor, your pastor, family member, a family member, a teacher, a coach, right, somebody who dresses like mom and dad, and so what we need to be extremely careful about is making sure that our kids know that, without scaring them. We don’t want to scare them and not trust people, right, but at the same time, they need to have their guard up. So if we can talk to our kids about how the grooming situation happens, then we can prevent this. So one easy example for you Right now in your home, create a no secrets rule.
This keeps them safe. Let me set this up for you, like how this works. So say 10, you know, we scale one to 10 again Exactly what we talked about before.
And 10 is like worst case scenario. So 10 is going to be your kid actually physically being sexually abused by a person they know. Okay, 10, that’s 10. Over here at one groomer, you know the coach or the pastor or whoever over here at one. It may be just them dropping the F bomb in front of your child, right, and they may say, oh, don’t tell mom and dad. Right, when your kid keeps that secret from you, that is a green light for groomer to move on to step two, right.
Step two may be after practice. Parents are working late, they’re trying to come get you. It’s just coaching your kid, right, and coach says Hey, i have a cooler in my back seat and it has some beers in it. Have you ever tasted a beer Like? I’ll, let you taste it, but you cannot tell mom and dad. Okay, when I think about that, i literally think about Adam and Eve and the garden. You seriously, right, being tempted, being groomed. But when your kid doesn’t tell you that groomer will move on to step three. And we’ve seen it all along The situations that we’ve dealt with here at nextTalk. It escalates to the point of nude photos. Then it becomes a digital thing. It becomes send me nude photos, or I’ll send you nude photos, and when they don’t tell mom and dad, it escalates into a physical situation.
0:05:24 – Speaker 1
Well, and I think too, you have to be so clear, especially if you have younger kids. this can be a confusing conversation if you don’t lay it out very clearly to them, because they’ll say so we’re not supposed to have surprise parties like should I tell you that, should I not tell you that? And so it’s real important kids are very literal when they’re young to make it clear to them what you want reported and what you don’t, and what’s a safe secret and what’s not. And the only ones like in our household, is a surprise birthday party or something like that.
0:05:53 – Speaker 3
Secrets are different from surprises, so make that distinction to your kids. But here’s the thing that I also wanna tell you kids are literal, so you’re gonna get the I’ve gotten this before which is hysterical. It’s so funny. Hey, mom, my teacher, let us sleep 10 minutes in class today and they all said don’t tell mom and dad.
0:06:14 – Speaker 1
Yes, which is good they’re telling you.
0:06:16 – Speaker 3
I’m cracking up because I’m like if I were a teacher I would have made them sleep.
0:06:19 – Speaker 1
The whole time.
0:06:21 – Speaker 3
I wanna need it to break. But how we handle that in our home is we think of a stoplight and we say, okay, this person probably didn’t mean anything by it.
They probably don’t realize we’re a nextTalk fee and we’re trying to talk about everything and we have a no secrets policy, so we’re gonna move them from the green light to the yellow light, and it’s just a caution. If this same person ever asked you to keep another secret, i need you to come to me Because and we need to take this stuff very seriously because what happens often is oh, teacher told me to sleep 10 minutes and not tell mom and dad, we just dismiss it. Well, then they get confused What’s a secret and what’s not?
0:06:59 – Speaker 2
What do you want me to tell, and what do you not?
0:07:01 – Speaker 3
So you don’t wanna dismiss what’s happening. You wanna say, okay, i don’t think your teacher means anything by it, i don’t think they’re a bad person, but let’s move them to the yellow just to be safe, because we wanna make sure this doesn’t escalate anymore And you see how this can actually prevent kids from being groomed Absolutely In an easy way, where you’re not scaring them Like don’t set them down and be like coach me, try to if you have littles. This is not coach me, try to take your pants out.
0:07:31 – Speaker 1
That’s not what this is. That is way too scary. No, you don’t wanna scare them.
0:07:33 – Speaker 3
Page appropriate conversation This is just about like secrets. Like if coach ever says a cuss word and ask you to hide it from me, will you tell me? Like, please tell me.
0:07:41 – Speaker 1
Or if that’s the way we wanna set this up, Well, and going back to that literal point that we were making, it’s also really important to define who may be a groomer in their life, not using that word, but define how you can handle that situation with different people, because a lot of times, like we talked about, they’ll think it’s this big, scary monster, but then it could also be someone that’s their same age that is doing a copycat behavior which is quite a bit An older sibling of a friend.
Or an older sibling An older cousin, yes, Yes, and so they don’t put those people in those categories. And if you don’t have that conversation with them and explain to them that these things can happen and that we’re looking for behaviors, not people, then they get really confused. So I know one instance we had a family where something happened with another little kid and this kid was doing copycat behaviors of something that they had seen and playing out grooming behaviors with this little kid. But because it was a friend and they thought it was a safe person and they were young, so they thought this person couldn’t hurt them. They didn’t know how to handle the situation And so they kind of froze up and went along with what was happening. And so it turned out that there was that real fine line distinction that was never explained to them. And so I don’t know if it’s someone who is like my best friend or a family member or my teacher, not someone that’s scary Is there a different way to handle that? And someone I love.
0:09:06 – Speaker 3
Someone that I love and care about, someone you respect Absolutely. Because then it becomes all this flood of emotions? of what? Because when you identify that they’re not doing healthy things in their relationship, then you look at that person differently and you’re kind of heartbroken.
0:09:19 – Speaker 1
Well, and for a little person in that moment to wade through all of those emotions is very difficult. That’s hard enough for an adult, but can you imagine being in a situation with someone that you love who is doing something that you know may not be right? Man, how do you handle that? And so we have to find ways to give them real, tangible steps and things that they can do when they’re put in a situation like that.
0:09:41 – Speaker 3
Well, and I think that this no secrets policy is the tangible thing, And then you can role play their questions off of well, what about this mom? or what about this dad? Absolutely, And that’s where you get into the meat of. I just want you to tell me and we can talk through and I can help you figure out if this person is safe or not.
0:10:00 – Speaker 1
Absolutely.
0:10:01 – Speaker 3
But I do think I love the point that you made We have to be talking to them about. Sometimes people who we think are good, that look good, make really bad choices, and so those choices can affect us and we need to be careful about that.
And that’s why the no secrets policy could kind of really save our kids Absolutely. As your kids get older I know we’re talking about this from a preventative perspective Stay in point from younger kids. I love your voice on the podcast, kim, because you always bring that to the table For older kids. I have an almost 16 year old And so we’ve had all these conversations when she was little, of course, the no secrets and we’ve brought that in and implemented it And lots of secrets have been asked to have been kept of her And I have to kind of decide what to approach and what not to approach.
If I overreact on every one, I’m going to be living in drama my whole life. So you have to kind of really have that discernment. If coach cusses, we move to a yellow light and then we kind of work through it And then after practice we talk about how did it go, where the cuss words again, things like that. And I also with my older one, my almost 16 year old, i let her read news stories.
And we’re at the point now like she’s on social media, she sees the scary stuff. So a kid is being sex trafficked by somebody her best friend, who got her into the system, and now she’s being trafficked. I let her read those And then like do you see how this person’s best friend thought she was? it was safe but, because she recruited her. she got extra things from the pimp and this is what happened. I let her read those stories now because she’s old enough.
0:11:39 – Speaker 1
She’s seeing it anyway And I want her to see the manipulation behind it Well, and do you see that full circle if you start when they’re young saying that you know how sometimes even we’re good people and we make mistakes.
0:11:51 – Speaker 3
And for the other day when I yelled and went off on you, I made a bad yes.
0:11:55 – Speaker 1
I’m like presenting that to your little person and they can relate and understand, but not overexposing them and saying sometimes people you love or care about or trust will make a mistake. I need you to talk to me about that so we can make sure to keep you safe. Something very simple like that, that’s age appropriate and not scary, prepares them from when they’re 16 and it’s that full circle moment where they start to see it played out or they’re approached by someone or a friend, betrays them or puts them in a situation They will stand on those things that you planted when they were little And when they’re 16, you know a lot of what you’re doing in the conversations is saying, if you don’t know if this person is safe and they’re giving you weird vibes, explain that to me.
0:12:38 – Speaker 3
Give me an example so I can help you kind of discern this. If you’re having trouble discerning if I can trust this person or not, and we talk about that a lot.
0:12:47 – Speaker 1
Oh, i bet I can imagine at that age it’s never ending. If you’re just now tuning in, this is nextTalk Radio at 2 pm on AM 6 30,. the word nextTalk Radio is sponsored in part by the PAX Financial Group and listeners just like you. Everything we do at our nonprofit to keep kids safe online is accomplished through your donations To support our organization. go to nexttalkorg and click on give.
0:13:16 – Speaker 2
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0:13:47 – Speaker 3
So today we are doing a show on grooming, a tough subject but something that literally could save our kids’ lives. It could save them from sex trafficking. I’m not being dramatic or overly emotional here. These are preventative conversations that can save a lot of heartache and chaos in our kids’ lives.
And so they’re extremely important. The first half of the show we talked about what grooming looks like in person. We were kind of talking about that, one of the things that I wanted to talk about. we used the scale of zero to ten and about how the groomers may ask kids to keep secrets.
0:14:25 – Speaker 1
And it progresses, and it progresses.
0:14:28 – Speaker 3
One may be just cussing, or two may be listening to bad music and then not telling parents.
What seems to be little things compared to the grand scheme of things. But they’re seeing if your kid has a relationship with you or they’re going to tell you or not. And it’s telling groomer okay, i can move on, this kid doesn’t have a safe place, i can move on. One of the things I wanted to point it out before we move to the online grooming stuff is because of this progression that we see with grooming, kids are often made to feel like they’re a part of their relationship, like they’ve contributed to it, and so a lot of times that’s why they don’t want to come tell us is because they kept the secret at one, two and three, and so they’ve been made to feel a part of it, like they’re part of the problem And one of the things to speak over and over to your child is, if somebody tries to manipulate you to do more stuff or keep more secrets from you, you are a victim.
That is not your fault, and to always be able to come talk to me because we don’t want our kids to be manipulated into the sense of well, i’m part of it, like I made the decision to keep the secret And so I’m in a relationship now and you see how that manipulation can happen.
0:15:41 – Speaker 1
Absolutely One of the things we tell our kids all the time and you know our kids are the smallest on the team. We tell them all the time. it’s never too late.
No matter how far, no matter how deep, no matter how much you have gone through or been a part of something, it’s never too late to tell mom and dad And we will be there for you, 100%. And we’re just trying to plant that seed now. So it’s funny because something little will happen, Like they will eat a cookie that they weren’t supposed to and then they’ll share it with their sibling I mean something silly like that And then they’ll say it’s never too late. So I’m going to tell you, I mean just, but you it makes me smile because I’m like they’re getting it. You’re a nextTalk family, Yes. And then understanding the concept, We’re planting the seeds when they’re itty bitty so that when it really is an issue, they know it’s not what you need And what I love about it is.
0:16:26 – Speaker 3
you’re not saying, oh, that’s not, that’s not really a big secret. You’re saying thank you for telling me That is a secret and we shouldn’t keep secrets for mom and dad.
0:16:34 – Speaker 1
Like you’re reiterating it, validate all of it.
0:16:36 – Speaker 3
You’re reiterating it, even though it’s something simple, because that teaches them.
0:16:40 – Speaker 1
Absolutely Yeah.
0:16:41 – Speaker 3
I love that. Okay, let’s switch gears because there’s so much we could talk about on this show, but I really want to talk about the online manipulation that happens too and how we’re kind of seeing that transpire, because this could be somebody you know in real life, but it could also be in real life, unfortunately literally a sex trafficking pimp halfway across the world, someone you’ve never met before. Absolutely A lot of times, what happens is you know, sex trafficking pimp’s will download a picture of a 12 year old kid So they may be a boy or a girl and they’re just playing games with you And they know how to talk that lingo and they know how to like act like a kid and be silly, right, and so they’ll do that with your child.
And at some point, the conversation may need to move If it starts out on something like Roblox or even an Xbox live chat or whatever it may go to a let’s exchange numbers or let’s go to a private chat area You know something a little more private, where they can get to know each other. And then it’s still, you know, the sex trafficking pimp acting like a kid, and that pimp may say stuff. Like you know, i just needed a place to vent. You seem really cool. You know, i hate my mom so much. This is what she’s doing Da, da, da, da, da, da, da, da, da, da, da, da, da, da, da, da, da, da, da da. And he’s setting up an environment to get your kid to turn on you.
That is what is happening, and the moment that your kid does that, they start opening up and it may be I hate my mom and dad because of this reason, or this happened today and da da, da, da, da, da da. You know, the moment that happens, the manipulation and the revenge will start, like if you don’t do this, i’m gonna tell your dad. you said that.
And by the way, here’s his Facebook profile. And they send a picture of Facebook. They know, they know Right, because at that point kid may have already shared where he lives, where he goes to school, and so he’s already in this process of being groomed. And so it’s to the point of you know, if groomer starts sending pics, you need to know that that’s the thing, and then kid already feels so connected And like I’m in this And shame, lots of shame And shame.
And at this point it’s like how do I tell mom that this is happening? Because I’ve, like, said all these bad things about mom on this.
0:18:53 – Speaker 1
And I didn’t really mean it, but I don’t want her to know.
0:18:56 – Speaker 3
And so you see how then sex trafficking pimp can say hey, you don’t send me a nude photo, like it’s over for you, like I’m writing your life Right, so the nude photos start happening. Well what eventually starts happening is you need to be like turning on your webcam or your camera on your phone video from this time to this time, And I need you to take your clothes off. And the sex trafficking pimp is actually collecting money for people to watch your kid, So like.
I know this is something that we all need to understand. Sex trafficking We think of kids being kidnapped and sold into sex slavery and that happens And we absolutely have to have our guard up about that. But what a lot of parents don’t understand. And I didn’t understand until we started partnering with the National Center on Sexual Exploitation in DC, like I’ve learned so much from them. What I didn’t understand is kids can be trafficked from their bedrooms. Yeah, and you see how this happens, like we’ve just set it up for you.
0:19:55 – Speaker 1
Well, and we’re not just setting it up from what we’ve heard. We have talked with parents, we have seen it happen right in your backyard. It’s not some strange thing happening overseas or somewhere else, it’s right here. It happens all the time.
0:20:07 – Speaker 3
And I think the more awareness we can bring about this. The parent you know we have a guideline that we always share no phones in bedrooms or bathrooms. There’s more to that role than just sharing nudes Absolutely, because your kids can be trafficked from their bedrooms. So if you set that up from an early age and that standard operating procedure, you’ve helped reduce that risk. It’s still there because they could take their phone and go to the locker room and do it still, but you’ve reduced the risk a little. And so every guideline that we really stay in firm on, we thought about it And that’s why we make that guideline for you all.
0:20:39 – Speaker 1
You know, i was thinking too. It’s important to share that. There was a gentleman that we talked to probably about a year and a half ago And he works with sex traffic teens here in San Antonio And one of the things that he said that I did not realize and it was very eye-opening to me because you hear this word trafficking, you hear this word grooming and the way that we set it up and explain how that process works. But it’s very scientific And he said it’s such huge business, such big business to sex traffic someone online or in person, that there are multimillion dollar companies that train people how to groom kids online. You take online courses and grooming I was just Under the name of free speech?
0:21:23 – Speaker 3
Yes, exactly, i have seen this debate. Yes, this is not free speech people.
0:21:28 – Speaker 1
No, This is not what free speech looks like. I was like what? And then I looked at my and there I mean it’s just easily accessible. So you imagine someone Like it’s a business, it’s a People are getting Lucrative business, yes, and so you take that people are being professionally and scientifically taught how to do this And parents are not being taught how to have these conversations.
Yes, and so you have a perfect storm there of someone who knows what they’re doing and families who don’t, and so that’s where we stand, in that gap, and we want to help you protect your kid.
0:21:58 – Speaker 3
That’s why we do what we do with nextTalk, with all these different issues that we’re facing Absolutely. Because that happens more than we know about people being taught how to lure our kids into other things like pornography addiction.
0:22:10 – Speaker 2
Oh, all of it, all of it.
0:22:11 – Speaker 3
So you’re right. That’s where nextTalk stands in the gap and says wait, stop, wait a minute, Like we have to identify that this is happening. and how do we prevent this at a one, two and three before our kids get to the 10,?
0:22:21 – Speaker 1
right, first Peter, five, eight, mandy, i mean, this is the one. Satan, like a lion, prowls around waiting two pounds And, as you always say, on your kids, on your family, On our babies.
0:22:33 – Speaker 3
Yes, satan wants to pounce on our babies. We have to be alert and be on guard. One of the things that, kim, that I wanted to talk about with the online grooming that happens often And we see this a lot Often. What happens when that private chat is happening and the kids are going back and forth with the sex tracking pimp who they think is a kid? Sometimes parents will intercept that because they’ll have an app monitoring tool or they’ll be doing random phone checks, like we suggest to do all the time, and something’s gonna alert them. Oh my gosh, my kid’s talking to a stranger. We had one family contact at us. I can’t remember how old the kid was.
It was a tween routine and was getting roses from California And mom was like whoa whoa, whoa Something you know so like these red flags are popping up right, and so what do we do, though, when we find out there’s an inappropriate relationship? What is our gut tell us to do? Take away the phone, freak out, scream. How could you do this right?
0:23:36 – Speaker 1
Shame your kids.
0:23:36 – Speaker 3
Guess what happens. Groomer’s already thought about that Many times. Groomer has already provided a secondary phone. Sometimes groomer meets up with the kid and does nothing No touching, no kidnapping, no, nothing, because that builds trust, exactly. And they will give your child another phone And they’ll say, if your parents find out, this is the way we can communicate without being monitored, right? So when we freak out, we take away phone, we scream, we create all these walls. Kid runs to groomer. Guess what groomer says.
0:24:09 – Speaker 1
I told you.
0:24:10 – Speaker 3
I’m the only one in your corner, honey. I told you I’m the safe place.
0:24:15 – Speaker 1
We push them into their arms And we’ve lost our kids.
0:24:19 – Speaker 3
This is why this is so critical. We don’t mean to create all these boundaries. And, yes, you need to take away the phone. You need to take away the phone when they’re at home And you need to say if there’s an inappropriate relationship going on. You need to say, ok, when you come home there’s no phone. But you cannot be naive that they’re not using another phone at school to get in contact with their groomer or a secondary phone that the groomer’s already given them. Please do not fall into that trap. I have seen that over and over and over again And if we know that groomer is trying to become the safe place, our tone and our empathy and our grace is way more different.
How we respond to it is going to be way more different, so we need to be aware of that.
0:24:59 – Speaker 1
That’s why this is also important, That’s why we have these conversations And that’s why we’re trying to equip you, because a simple change in the way you communicate with your kid and your tone, like you said, and the way we deal with them when they’re struggling through these things and understanding their culture and having these tough conversations, is your best and first line of defense. All right, so a few things to take away from today. Number one grooming can happen in person and online. Prepare your child for both. Number two create a no secrets rule in your home. And number three don’t fear Talking is how we protect our kids and keep them safe.
0:25:34 – Speaker 2
Thanks for joining us on nextTalk Radio with Mandy and Kim on AM 6.30, the Word You are not alone trying to figure out how to parent in this digital world. We are here with practical solutions to help you. Follow us on Facebook, instagram and Twitter. Find our video series and podcast at nexttalkorg. Are you ready for the nextTalk? no-transcript.
Transcribed by https://podium.page
