0:00:03 – Speaker 1
Hey, this is Mandy and Kim with nextTalk, where we are passionate about keeping kids safe in the digital world.
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0:00:28 – Speaker 2
Go to nextTalk.org and click on Give and check out our resources while you’re there More than cyber parenting conversations, to connect. We’re finally doing this show. I mean, we have referenced this on a few previous episodes, we’ve talked about it with our online groups and just in the day to day, and it’s finally happening. Shame versus conviction.
0:00:49 – Speaker 1
I mean this is really important because there is a distinction that we need to talk through and it not only helps us, it’ll help conversations with our kids, and we kind of want to cover some of that stuff on our show today.
But one of the core things we say around here and it’s like a talking point in my latest book is look in the mirror, and what we mean by that is, you know, like we’re the adults, and so we kind of create the family culture in our home, and so if we don’t have open communication, we kind of need to look in the mirror. We may be yellows, we may not be good listeners, we may be too strict, we may be acting like a dictator instead of a parent. Something is off. We have to look in the mirror and fix the issue so we can build a good relationship with our child. But here’s the thing Yes, we want you looking in the mirror. We’re doing that every day, finding faults that we need to fix to make our family dynamic better. Right, we’re doing that right alongside with you. But what we don’t want, we don’t want you to walk around feeling like a horrible parent, and so there is a difference between walking around in constant shame or failure versus having conviction, and we really want to talk about the distinction today.
0:02:02 – Speaker 2
I think we should start by looking at this on the parent level, but then we also want to look at some things our kids may ask us about this and how we can apply the shame versus conviction conversation with them. To parents Say you’ve identified that you’re a horrible listener. Maybe that’s your thing. You just don’t listen because you’re too busy, you’re multitasking, you don’t like to sit around and just listen. I am literally pointing the finger at myself right now.
It does not mean you’re a failure. That doesn’t mean we walk around in shame until everybody we meet I’m the worst parent. I do this. We post it on social media. That’s not what we’re talking about. It just means we’re human and we’re humble enough to allow God to convict our hearts and tell us what we need to fix. And, honestly, if you’re being nudged by the Holy Spirit or a family member or a close friend has told you about this shortcoming and you’re willing to recognize it’s a problem, i feel like that’s huge. Being willing to recognize it and see it and accept it is just a really big step towards change.
0:03:01 – Speaker 1
Absolutely. And you said something, kim. You said if we’re being nudged by the Holy Spirit or a family member or close friend. I want to talk about this for a minute because conviction can come in different ways. Sometimes it comes literally straight from God.
One time my son and my husband were leaving our driveway and I remember my son did something kind of irritating to me. The door was open and I was trying to talk and I just wanted to row down the window or whatever so they could kind of get going. And I said it in a very demeaning tone. I didn’t say, are you stupid? But that was my tone And so literally I remember God stopping me in my driveway and I just felt it like you are being so disrespectful right now. If he was talking to you that way, you would lose your mind. So what gives you the right to talk to your son in that such disrespectful tone? you know that was conviction straight from God. Now, another time, i remember I was a young that my kid about spilled milk I mean, this shows really making me sound to be like a.
0:04:12 – Speaker 2
Okay, we’re handling ourselves right. Actually it’s making me feel better about myself. Nice to know I’m not alone.
0:04:19 – Speaker 1
Yes. So let me tell you the spilled milk story. So you know, my son was little and he spilled milk at the island and I just, yeah, i mean I yell. I was like, why are you playing around? you know, did it and I’m an in a gram one, so that perfection just comes out sometimes and it’s so awful. Right, it’s something I know that I have to work on. Everything was fine, we got to school, whatever.
But later that day Matt called me and I was still thinking, not feeling guilty about it all. I was like he was messing around. You should have been mess around. I had milk clean up, i had to get out the mall, you know all the things. Yeah, you know, i’m justifying it in my head.
And Matt called me and he was like, listen, you’re a great mom, you are the best mom in the entire world, but I need to speak something into you. Our kid can literally show you porn and you stay calm, but he spills milk and we lose our mind. And when he said it, i still got defensive, i still got to. I was like, dude, i was justified, he should not have been messing around. And then he said you’re right, he should not have been messing around, but did that justify the level of crazy mom mode this morning? yeah, and that’s when I felt the conviction, and that’s when I had to circle back and apologize to my kid and I didn’t give him an out. I said you shouldn’t have been playing around, but I should not have also yelled at you right before you went to school. It didn’t require that level of crazy on my part.
0:05:42 – Speaker 2
that’s so good, because We all need to hear from the Holy Spirit, but also be open to hearing from people who we love and trust, that are trying to sharpen us and make us better versions of ourself.
0:05:56 – Speaker 1
I love how you said this, because it has to be a trusted person in your inner circle. I saw a tweet one time and it’s just stuck with me and I can’t remember who said it, but it went something like this don’t take criticism from someone you wouldn’t take advice from. Yes, i can’t even tell you how many times I have thought about that. You know, somebody on Twitter or Facebook sends me an ugly message and they’re just criticizing me And I just can’t let it get into my soul because I’m like I don’t even know this person. Would I take advice on them?
0:06:26 – Speaker 2
probably not the way they’re speaking to me, you know, and so that eliminates that.
0:06:31 – Speaker 1
But Like people like Matt, people like you can really. You know you’ve earned the right to give me hard to hear advice, because I know that you guys are trustworthy and I know that you’re not telling me things to make me feel awful about myself. You don’t want me to walk around in shame. You’re telling me these things because you’re like I love you so much, i want you to be a better person, just like that’s God’s conviction. He loves us so much. He just wants us to be better.
0:07:03 – Speaker 2
That’s such an important point, so true, and that’s why it’s so valuable to have people in your trusted circle that will speak that truth into you. Alright, so let’s talk through these examples. You know, when God convicts us, yes, we feel some shame and guilt. Those are normal emotions, but it’s what we do with that. that’s important. We’re going to feel terrible. That’s all a part of doing something wrong or making a misstep. But if you pray and ask for forgiveness and you’re making a valuable effort to fix it going forward, we walk out of that shame and guilt and into forgiveness and freedom, and that’s what God really wants for us. That’s where he wants us to exist, not in the shame and not in the guilt. Yes, we’ll feel it, but let’s move away from it so we can actually move forward and change for the better.
0:07:51 – Speaker 1
Yeah, you know I struggle with this sometimes because and I’ve even said like guilt is not from God, and you know, i think what God is showing me is through this process of conviction, you will feel a little bit of guilt, and that’s normal. But what he doesn’t want us to do is live there right. We get freedom in Christ because of what Jesus did on the cross. I mean, that’s why he sent his son. So I think the lesson is that we can apply this to our lives, but we also can use it in conversations with our kids. So I kind of want to talk through some of those practical examples.
0:08:26 – Speaker 2
This really made more sense to me when I applied it to fear, because it’s the same thing. It’s a real emotion, fear, but we don’t want to live there and we don’t want to operate from fear. Guilt is the same way. It is a real emotion. You’re going to feel it, just don’t operate from that space.
0:08:42 – Speaker 1
That’s such a great point. So, thinking about applying this practically to our kids and the conversations there what if your teen boy comes home and says I’ve been looking up women in bathing suits online and I feel really guilty about it. I’m so, so terrible, right? So this is a great example because, as we’re creating open communication in our kids and we’re talking to them about what they shouldn’t look at online, because it could spiral really fast sometimes, they will get curious and they will, and then they’ll feel guilty about it And so they’ll want to come talk to us about it.
Here’s kind of a great way to respond to something like that, like, oh my gosh, first of all, i’m so glad you told me We always lead with that. That’s what you always need to do when you’re struggling with something About this specific situation. Listen, this is natural because you’re a boy and you’re curious and the female body is beautiful and you don’t have to feel ashamed or guilty about loving the female body, right. But I do think God may be convicting you, just to remind you that there’s more to a woman than her physical appearance. You know, there’s a scripture in 1 Samuel 16-7 and it says people look at the outward appearance, but the Lord looks at the heart. You know, and maybe this is just a reminder for you, that yes, it’s okay to see the female body as beautiful, but what else? Let’s look at their intelligence, their hearts, their personality, how they treat others.
God may be giving you that conviction to keep you balanced, to make sure that you don’t start objectifying girls. The Bible tells us to take our thoughts captive, and so that’s kind of what we have to teach our kids to do, boys and girls, because their thoughts are going to spiral the more that they’re exposed to and the more they grow up and the more that they have hormones going. And so it’s our job to talk to them. We don’t want them to live in a constant state of shame because their hormones are changing and they’re being curious, right, but we do want them to experience conviction so that they don’t spiral with it, so that it doesn’t get out of control.
0:10:49 – Speaker 2
This is really good, because we need to talk to our kids about the line they cannot cross. Appreciating a woman’s body is one thing, but looking up pictures of them online is another, and so they need to understand the clear balance between appreciation and seeking out inappropriate images and then focusing on what’s really important, like you said, teaching them to focus on the other attributes of women. That would be honoring to God. So let’s talk about maybe a younger kids, and you’re not there yet, with them being online and you’re thinking well, how do I teach this to my little ones? So here’s an example One of my kiddos overheard something at school and repeated it to another student.
They basically shared some little kid gossip. You know how that goes Nothing really important, but at that age it felt important. But they got in the car and immediately burst into tears and said Mom, i told some kids this info that wasn’t mine to share, and now I’m feeling so, so bad. And this kid went to I am the worst friend, i’m the worst kid ever, like all the bad things immediately and wanted to know how to make it right. So one of the ways you can respond that worked in our household is we talked about how tempting it is to spread gossip. It is as an adult too, and that’s a normal thing. But those bad feelings you’re experiencing, that’s a cue that it’s not a good choice.
I mean, even in the Bible there’s tons of scripture about the power of the tongue and about gossip, and one I share with my kids a lot is Ephesians 4.29. Do not let any unwholesome talk come out of your mouths, but only what is helpful for building up others according to their needs, that it may benefit those who listen, and the fact that my kid wanted to tell that person what they did and apologize. I praise them for being willing to confess and ask for forgiveness, because that’s huge. That’s not easy to do at any age And for my kid to want to do that. I just wanted to make sure that they were existing in a place that would be God honoring, because they felt that guilt and shame don’t stay there. Let’s take action to move towards conviction and healing.
0:12:52 – Speaker 1
I love this example, kim, because you first validated your kid for being like well, maybe this was God convicting your heart that maybe that wasn’t the best choice, but then you go into loving your kid and making sure your kid knows God doesn’t want you to live in that shame. We all make mistakes And so, yes, maybe this wasn’t the best choice, but let’s ask for forgiveness. We know that God will forgive us and then we can learn from this And we don’t have to feel like a failure. We don’t have to feel like the worst person in the world. The conviction has served its purpose. It’s taught us the life lesson that God wanted us to have.
0:13:30 – Speaker 2
Yes, and I will tell you, mandy, the conversation we have boiled it down in our household. That helps me as an adult, but also my kids, understand the difference between shame and conviction. When these issues rise up, because sometimes it’s hard, especially with kids, i find that shame speaks for the voice in our heart that produces feelings of darkness and despair. We all know what that feels like Depression.
0:13:53 – Speaker 1
Yes, it’s a spiral, for that You can feel it.
0:13:56 – Speaker 2
It’s just yucky, But conviction speaks for the voice that inspires change and hope. It feels yucky for a minute, but you’re like, OK, we can change this and there’s hope that things will be better. And that’s the voice that I want my kids to hear. Neither of these things feel good, but only one of them is God, and it is not shame.
0:14:15 – Speaker 1
Amen, sister. We hope these examples will help you deal with your own shame and conviction, but also that it’ll create some good conversation with your kids about some specific examples that they may be having. As with any advice we give at nextTalk, these are just things that have worked in our home, things that we’re learning. We want you to always pray about it first. God knows your specific child and your specific family dynamic, and he knows how to guide you in ways we do not, so trust him more than anything.
Transcribed by https://podium.page