0:00:02 – Speaker 1
Welcome to the nextTalk podcast, where we share real stories and practical advice for parenting the digital world.
0:00:09 – Speaker 2
We’re your hosts, Mandy and Kim. Mandy is an award-winning author and the founder of nextTalk, and I’m the director of nextTalk, a nonprofit organization created to strengthen families through open communication. You can check out all of our resources at nextTalk.org.
0:00:24 – Speaker 1
We’re your wives, moms and friends, tackling culturally relevant topics from a Christian perspective. We’re sharing what we’ve learned and where we’ve failed. We’re so glad you’re here for this conversation. Okay, so we have a couple reasons why we’re doing this show. This is like a back to basic show at nextTalk. So the first thing is and we get these questions all the time the first is I’ve got one kid who likes to tell me everything and I’ve got another kid who tells me nothing And the parents are like they’re being raised by the same parents, like what is happening here.
0:01:01 – Speaker 2
Well, i’m sure most of us can relate to that because you know I have three kids. All three are different, they talk at different times, different seasons, and so it’s important to know your kid, know their personality naturally, like I have a talker, whether we were an open communication family or not, he would be talking, he’d be talking all the time. And then I have one that’s a lot more quiet, and so knowing those things is kind of your baseline, is super healthy.
0:01:25 – Speaker 1
Well, and I know one time you told me too, though, kim and this is quoting you, because this was a very good point You said even if you have a talker, are they talking about important things? Because they could just be giving you all kinds of information, but you’re not really getting into deep level stuff, right? So just because you have a talker doesn’t mean you are creating open communication, and I think we need to clarify that. The other part of this equation is, yes, you got to know your kid, and there’s different personalities involved, but what if you had a talker and then they become a non-talker? And then you’re like, oh my gosh, wait, we had open communication and now it’s gone. What am I doing here? And I think this is where we really kind of want to dive into the show, because we really need to ask ourselves what phase of open communication are you in?
0:02:14 – Speaker 2
We have walked through open communication and how it affects your family for all these years and we really identified that there’s like these four phases that you go through. One of them is ongoing. It never stops, but they’re pretty typical and we hear from a lot of different parents when they’re going through one of them. We’re like, oh yes, you’re in this phase And it helps to know that it’s kind of normal, it’s something to expect and something to understand. So, really, the first phase is called build. That’s what we’re calling it. This is where we’re building trust in the relationship, and this is the one that’s ongoing. It’s a different type of building as your kids get older, or with your spouse or with your friend, but it all gears towards trust in that foundation and your relationship.
0:02:57 – Speaker 1
Yeah, i mean any healthy relationship that you have in your life. You’re constantly kind of going to live here with that building trust, being a safe place and that sort of thing. This is a key component of nextTalk. It’s like a back to basics, like step one of everything that we do here, and so we couldn’t really cover all that we wanted to cover in this build phase in this show, because we wanted to really cover the phases, and so we just did a whole show on creating a safe place And in that show we laid out some core principles and practical steps that you need to take to build this safe place, this culture of conversation that we always talk about, this healthy dialogue that you want with your kids. And so this phase one is build And, like Kim said, you’re going to live there. This is an ongoing phase, but these other phases that we’re going to talk about, they’re going to come and go And it’s like a deeper level of what’s happening. So step one is you’re going to build.
0:03:56 – Speaker 2
I do want to give a warning for step one that I went through and I see other moms and dads go through. This is that building trust phase. And maybe you’ve just heard about nextTalk or you’re just digging in and you’re like I’m doing all the things And my kids still isn’t really opening up. Don’t quit. I had that same experience with all three of mine. It takes a minute for them to really trust you that, no matter what I bring to mom or dad, no matter how bad it is, they’re not gonna shut me down, they’re not gonna sweep it under the rug, they’re gonna answer my question or they’re gonna help me process this hard or crazy thing. And so you have to give it some time. keep trying different things. Pray about God creating space where you find that special time where they open up. It takes a lot of commitment and you’ve gotta be patient.
0:04:43 – Speaker 1
Well and I’m so glad you said this, and for older parents too, you may think oh, it’s too late, i missed my window to build. Listen, you’ve never missed your window to build, ever. So say your marriage is in shambles. Start, start building right. There’s always, i mean, i have seen God restore parent-kid relationships, marriages. Start building okay, and keep building And you’re gonna live in this build. Phase Phase two this phase cracks me up. Kim named this phrase. She calls it waterfall.
0:05:20 – Speaker 2
Well, imagine yourself standing under a waterfall and it’s just constant pressure water. It’s like constant information. Yes, it’s all the things, everything, and most of the time it’s not really important or bad things. but now they’re like oh, my goodness, you’ve built this foundation, i can trust you. So they tell you everything all day long. at bedtime they wanna talk and you’re like okay, i didn’t wanna know this much, but this phase is super, duper important, that you listen, because they’re doing what we have asked them to do, especially with your kids. We’ve said tell me everything, let me know. And now that they’re doing it, we don’t wanna shut it down, we wanna say thank you for coming to me. I always think of it as like they’ve been carrying around this heavy load, like this full bucket of stuff, and now you’ve given them a place to pour out all this water. take off the pressure, carry the load with them and it literally is like they pour the bucket over your head and it’s a waterfall of information.
0:06:22 – Speaker 1
You guys, i remember when Kim you know her kids are younger than mine And so I remember her one night she was like texting me in a frantic And she was like Mandy, is it supposed to be this way? Like they’re telling me everything, every thought, and I was like sister. I know, i know it feels like a lot right now, but don’t dismiss them, because sometimes what they bring you is like silly stuff. You know, like you’ve said, maybe you’ve given your reporting guidelines, like we have that show about tell your kids what to report. So, for example, you have been very clear about telling your kids anything in a bathing suit or less, because you need a threshold when they’re little of just trying to catch that pornography piece. It doesn’t believe you all bathing suit pictures are bad or anything like that, but that’s your threshold. And then all of a sudden they’re bringing new pictures of these cartoon characters on Roblox that it is totally not pornography at all. Like it is totally not, but it’s a little abating suit And you want to just like laugh it off and be like, ah, that’s so silly that you don’t have to tell me those things.
Don’t do that, because what it does it’s just creating this standard operating procedure in their brain. When I see something alarming or something that mom and dad have told me to report, i’m going to go report to them And then you have a really good response. You’re not crazy, you’re not dismissive, you’re not acting like it’s no big deal. You’re saying thank you. In the next phase you’re going to start having those conversations about how this is going to change over time because you’re getting older, but in this waterfall stage we just want to set it up Like you tell me, I’m going to say thank you kind of situation.
0:08:06 – Speaker 2
Well, and I’m going to give the same advice here, because I run into moms all the time that sound just like me when my kids were younger, that are like, why make it stop?
0:08:15 – Speaker 1
And I say the same thing.
0:08:17 – Speaker 2
I say the same thing. Don’t quit, just like when they weren’t talking. Push through, say the thank you, keep listening. The next phase is coming and it’s good.
0:08:29 – Speaker 1
As an older mom with a younger mom, i would say let me challenge you on this. I know it sounds exhausting right now, but what about in a couple years when their friend group is looking at porn and they’re all texting it and they know how to hide it from you? Do you want your kid to tell you or not? Let me challenge you right there, because what you’re doing is you’re setting up an environment where they’re used to telling you And they know that you’re not going to go crazy or overreact or respond badly or take away the technology. You’re not going to do any of those things, and so it is a great way. Again, you’re living in this space of building trust through this waterfall stage. Do you see how that carries over and over? So phase one is that build. Phase two is what our Kim likes to call the waterfall stage, which I love the name of it, by the way. Phase three is really cool, but it is very critical that you move from phase two to phase three with a good conversation, because phase three is weaning.
0:09:35 – Speaker 2
We’re weaning them off of the waterfall because they’re not always going to be under our roof, they’re not always going to be able to ask us or share with us or process with us, and so, as they’re getting older, we need to teach them how to protect their own heart in mind. And what does that look like? I know in our house, when my son, my oldest son he started coming to me and he was telling me everything, and some of the things were very benign, or there were things that he had seen a number of times. Some of them were bad, but they weren’t new. And he’d tell me and I’d say well, you know, do you want to talk that through? Were you able to guard your heart against that? What did you do? And like he had a plan, and he’s like, yeah, it’s fine, like I didn’t even think about it again. And so those were the examples I used when we sat down and talked about it And I said there’s going to be things that you’re going to see or hear that you will immediately be able to guard your heart.
You’ll be able to think of the scripture that we talked about and move past it and not dwell on it. Those are things that you can process on your own, versus you see or hear something and you find yourself going back to it, thinking about it, laying in bed at night, being curious. Those are the things we still need to be talking about. I said you can still tell me everything, but it’s time for you to start kind of taking control of the things that you know how to process already. You’re getting older, you’re mature, you’ve proven yourself and I trust you, and so that has been such a cool phase to watch him learn how to take care of himself but also still come to me with the things that really bother him.
0:11:06 – Speaker 1
You did a great job, kim, of laying that out. This is where you’re teaching your kid how to discern what they need to speak out loud to you and process with you, versus what they can handle on their own, and this is healthy. As your kids get older guys, you cannot have your college kid be texting you every day as they’re being exposed to something at college, It’ll be.
0:11:30 – Speaker 2
you just leave the phone on then.
0:11:32 – Speaker 1
That cannot be right, and so this phase is critical because you’re teaching them what do I need help with and what do I not need help with. Kim, you said one distinct thing that I always tell my kids. you said if you’re laying down at bed at night and you keep thinking and thinking and thinking and this thing is causing you stress, then that’s something we need to talk about. So, for example, you know our reporting guideline of anybody in a bathing suit or less. They can’t report that to you through middle school.
So then it becomes kind of like just tell me about the highly sexualized ones that maybe you’re thinking about or you’re going back to, or let’s process that together. And then we start having conversations about self control and the thought process there and taking our thoughts captive and how it’s okay to notice beauty with boys and girls You know what I mean Like with boys and girls, like with muscles and with tone and all that kind of stuff. Like that’s normal human feelings. But what do we do with those feelings? Where do we go from here on that? And I feel like this is where a lot of discipleship can happen with your kids, because the conversation becomes you don’t always have to process with me. Sometimes this is a you and Jesus conversation and you’re processing it. Maybe you want to tell me afterwards or maybe you don’t, but this is where you’re really discipling your kid to the next level.
0:12:55 – Speaker 2
That’s an important skill, you know.
It’s very important for them, not just personally but as they go into their next relationships, to know what things to talk about and how to talk about that and how to process and their relationship with Jesus.
That’s how they’re going to grow. Their relationship, their faith relationship too, is depending on him for answers and direction when they’re struggling or stressed or dealing with something uncomfortable, we want them to turn to Jesus. So this is such an important phase, the wean phase but it’s imperative in this phase to still, every once in a while, let them know like I’m so thankful to be your safe place, like this is something I say regularly to my oldest and all three of them, but just every once in a while, especially if I haven’t heard from him in a while, i just want to remind him hey, i know that you do so well with taking your thoughts captive and you know second Corinthians 10-5 and we talk about that, and but you know I’m here for you And I still want you to know I’m your safe place and we can talk about anything, and sometimes they just need that reminder.
0:13:56 – Speaker 1
I think that’s so, so, so wise. And then you can also throw in there just a practical thing that you can say in this conversation is and hey, when your friends start doing something new, so something’s new on the horizon. Maybe you now know a friend having sex, or now you know your friend, a friend, doing drugs, or now you know this. That’s something we may want to process together. You know. So, like anything big new that’s happening in your life, like you don’t have to handle that on your own. I’m here for you. You know I’m a safe place, you know I’m trustworthy, you know I’ve. You remember that time when you told me when you were a little kid and you’re going back to the waterfall phase, even though you’re not calling it that in front of your kid, but you’re saying remember when you told me that and I didn’t tell anybody like we processed it together and we walked through it. So you’re just reminding them like I am your safe place.
I do want to reiterate again you don’t want to go from waterfall to wean without a conversation. Listen, i’m so passionate about this because with my first kid I think I messed this up a bit and now I’m going in and I’m perfecting it a little bit more with my second one and I’m seeing what a difference it’s making. So you, you have to say, hey, we’re moving from where you’re telling me everything to the place where I trust you more, and so you’re, you’re getting mature, like. Make it an empowering conversation. You are growing and you’re maturing and you’re able to discern some things now. So you don’t have to tell me about every bikini picture or you don’t have to tell me about everything, but but I do need you to keep telling me on new things or things that are bothering you. So, again, make it like a almost like another. Don’t call it these phases. These phases are just for moms. Do not tell your kid, okay, now you’re in wean phase.
0:15:41 – Speaker 2
They are oh my goodness No not much for them next time.
0:15:45 – Speaker 1
Don’t do that. This is a mom only conversation, but you do need to say to them Hey, you’re maturing, empower them in that way, And so I’m trusting you. I’m seeing you growing your relationship with the Lord like you’ve got this, And if you ever are on the fence of do I need to tell mom or dad or not, Tell us. Just err on the side of caution and we’ll talk about it.
0:16:05 – Speaker 2
So you’re walked through this wean phase. The next phase is a you know a place that really you should be talking about because you are walking through that right now, and it’s independent. This is when they’ve been kind of weaned off of that waterfall and they’re moving out of your house and they are going to operate life for the most part on their own.
0:16:29 – Speaker 1
Let me tell you we’re calling this the independence phase. but I’m just going to be real. It’s the promise land It is land.
This is just the sweet spot of parenting. It is so, so much fun, guys. Because you know, i look back on the waterfall stage when I wish to break in all the intake and I was where Kim is oh my gosh, is this ever going to stop? And I look back on it now and I’m like, oh, i’m so glad we did that, i’m so glad I listened all those times.
But what’s cool is, after having gone through all four stages, you know, like the build, the waterfall, the wean now I’m at a place where she’ll call me and she’ll just like say, this is what’s going on. And then, you know, maybe a professor has said something that kind of rubbed her the wrong way, and then we’ll talk about it. And then, like, i’ll get her take on it, and then we move on And I’m like she’s got it, she’s got Jesus, she’s got Jesus guiding her. He knows way better than I do. It’s just a really cool place in parenting, this young adult independence phase, where you see them doing their thing And then, but you also see them sometimes where they’re maybe in a new space or a new situation, and that’s really cool too, because then they’ll call and they’ll be like, hey, is this normal, like, is this okay? And that’s really cool too, because again it goes back to phase one on the safe place And that’s why it’s so important.
0:18:07 – Speaker 2
You know You’re building a different kind of safe place. You know it’s a mature one, it’s where it’s two adults and where you know you’re not parenting in the same way, which is really cool. Like you said, that’s a really beautiful kind of full circle moment And you get to see the fruit of all your hard work and all the time that you spent raising these kids. So it is. It is a really, I’ve heard it’s a very sweet to be in, and I think, too, the important part about this one is you know they’re separating from you in a way, so that they have the capacity to now pour that into someone else. They need to be building a safe place with their future husband or wife or dear friends. It’s a natural process where they’re not going to be as close to you and sharing everything with you, because it’s time for them to do that with someone else, and so that’s also really exciting to see them grow in that way. That’s the way it’s supposed to be.
0:19:01 – Speaker 1
Well and dang one thing that I I mean God is amazing, right, because when I started implementing open communication in our home, it was really just I need to keep my kids safe online and filters aren’t catching it, so I want them to tell me like that was the solution.
Right, i didn’t even think about the ripple effect of open communication, and I think in this independence phase I’m seeing it more than I realized What I mean by that is just what you said. Kim, as she’s going out and you know, has an employer now and, you know, has different types of relationships, different types of friendships and that sort of thing, she is implementing open communication in her healthy relationships And that is. That’s not something I set out to do Like I didn’t. I just wanted to say my kid from board, that’s all of it, right And so. But that’s the cool thing about God and following God. You know, if you seek solutions in his word, they have bigger ramifications than what your even little brain can process, and I think that’s the really cool thing here that I’m learning right now in this independence phase.
0:20:09 – Speaker 2
So these four phases, you know we have walked through them. I meet mamas all the time and I know you do too, Mandy that are in one of the phases and they feel like something’s wrong and it usually is just a normal part of this process. But, yes, pay attention to what’s going on with your kid and dig in there. Don’t give up. In the phases, like we were saying, it’s so easy to want to quit, But they’re all so, so important and they lead to this beautiful full circle moment where your kid is off doing open communication in their own life. And so it’s built. You know, building that safe place, waterfall, wean and independent.
0:20:46 – Speaker 1
I just want to say to the parents on the waterfall stage don’t hate us. And you got this. Thank you so much for joining us, listening and sharing our podcast. Because of you, this show is in the top 5% of over 2.9 million podcasts.
0:21:06 – Speaker 2
We have lots of resources for you, from counseling to live events. Or if you have a show idea or a question for our team, visit our website at nexttalkorg. We’d love to hear from you.
0:21:16 – Speaker 1
At nextTalk. We’re more than cyber parenting. It’s conversations to connect. This podcast is not intended to replace the advice of a trained healthcare or legal professional or to diagnose, treat or otherwise render expert advice regarding any type of medical, psychological or legal problem. Listeners are advised to consult a qualified expert for treatment.
Transcribed by https://podium.page