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How can we protect our children from the dangerous world of online challenges? Joann Bogard, a mother who tragically lost her son Mason to the deadly YouTube choking challenge, joins us to share her story and inspire change. Through this emotional conversation, we honor Mason’s memory and learn how Joanne has transformed her grief into advocacy for kids’ online safety.
How can we protect our children from the dangerous world of online challenges? Joann Bogard, a mother who tragically lost her son Mason to the deadly YouTube choking challenge, joins us to share her story and inspire change. Through this emotional conversation, we honor Mason’s memory and learn how Joanne has transformed her grief into advocacy for kids’ online safety.
Transcription is done by an AI software. While technology is an incredible tool to automate this process, there will be misspellings and typos that might accompany it. Please keep that in mind as you work through it.
Speaker 1:
Welcome to the Next Talk podcast, where we share real stories and practical advice for parenting the digital world.
Speaker 2:
We’re your hosts, Mandy and Kim. Mandy is an award-winning author and the founder of Next Talk, and I’m the director of Next Talk, a nonprofit organization created to strengthen families through open communication. You can check out all of our resources at NextTalkorg.
Speaker 1:
For wives, moms and friends, tackling culturally relevant topics from a Christian perspective. we’re sharing what we’ve learned and where we’ve failed. We’re so glad you’re here for this conversation. Thank you all for joining today at the Next Talk podcast. Many of you are familiar with Walker’s story. Brian Montgomery came on our show and talked about his son Walker in the Instagram scheme and how he lost his son to that. After that show we had a parent contact us and we were so intrigued by her story and we wanted to have her on to share about her son Mason. Her name is Joanne Bogard and she is here to share the story of her son, joanne. thank you so much for being here. Thank you for having me Tell us a little about you and your family.
Speaker 3:
Well, my husband and I are. we live in Indiana, southern Indiana, and he’s a fireman. I work at a school corporation. We were high school sweethearts. We’ve been married 37 years now. We were blessed with three beautiful children. Two are adults and one will forever be 15.
Speaker 1:
And tell us about Mason, tell us what happened, because the point of this whole podcast here is to kind of raise awareness, right, so we can save other kids from falling prey to online schemes that are out there for our kids.
Speaker 3:
So Mason was. He was our outdoor kid. He loved to be outside. He loved to fish and hike and do all of those fun things that boys like to do. He was always witty, very, very generous. I mean, he had the most generous heart. He was very patriotic. He was just. He loved the kids. He loved drumming. He was a drummer, he was a scout, he just he was the youngest and you know it was. He was the typical kid. He was getting ready to do take driver’s ed and start that. We had been practicing a little bit driving, so he was going to take driver’s ed and he had just started his first real job at a landscape business. So he was pretty excited about that.
Speaker 3:
And in 2019, may 1st 2019, that was a normal day We went to work in school and when we came home, mason, he was about 930 and he said oh, i forgot to take my shower. And I said we’ll go on up this, go ahead and take one. And so he went upstairs and he gave his dad his typical hug and said I love you. He’s walking upstairs And he said I love you, mama. I love you too, bud. And we heard the shower turn on and then, a few minutes later we heard something, a noise, that was unusual, and my husband went to check on him and he found Mason unconscious, not breathing, with a belt around his neck, and so my husband did CPR, we call 911, of course, got him to the hospital. My husband did get a pulse back, but Mason never woke up. So Mason was on life support for a week in the hospital as we prayed over him and just hoping to get him to wake up and have our normal healthy child back again, and unfortunately he passed after that week, after three days, they informed us that his brain was not viable, and so we knew that Mason would want to do organ donation And so, because he was so generous, so we opted to do organ donation and that’s why we stayed the additional few days while they prepared everyone for that.
Speaker 3:
And then with that, while we were in the hospital praying over him, i just couldn’t figure it out. I thought, you know it, just suicide did not make sense. We couldn’t figure out what happened And I looked on my phone. He didn’t have his phone there, we didn’t have it at the hospital, and I looked on my phone and I just did a search for teen with belt around neck And all of these videos started popping up of the choking challenge And it was a viral online challenge where kids try to make themselves pass out, cut the airflow off. And there were many ways they can do that. One was a belt Only the belt that Mason used. Typically, when the person passes out, they will wake up. When they pass out, the ligature will loosen, and Mason the belt that he used locked in place, so when he passed out, he never woke up.
Speaker 3:
So as I’m looking, i’m thinking, oh my gosh. I know this is what happened to him, because just a couple of weeks prior, mason came to me with his phone And now I met mom, who had watched all gaps in place. I checked his phone regularly. We had candy conversations in the car, around the table about safety and predators and things that I knew about that were online, but this I did not know about, and so we just never had the opportunity to have that conversation.
Speaker 3:
But he did came to me with his phone a couple of weeks prior and said hey, mom, look at this funny challenge. And I thought the only thing I had ever heard of was a Tide Pod challenge and the ice bucket challenge. So one dangerous and one to raise awareness for a good cause. And so we watched it and I said, buddy, you know that opened that door for that conversation that we all look for in our daily lives with our kids. And I said you know, all these can be dangerous. And he said I know, mom, i would never do anything dangerous. And I believed him because he was smart, right, not my kid, he would never do anything that silly. So I knew right away what he had done. I thought he has done this challenge.
Speaker 3:
And so when we got home after the funeral and were able to look at his phone, there was a video on there where he had recorded himself a couple of days prior trying this choking challenge and it didn’t work. And he just casually said oh well, that didn’t work, you know, and it was no big deal. And you could tell in the video that he had no idea that what he was doing could be deadly or harmful. And so we gave the phone to the police, of course, and the coroner said that he based after watching that video, he knew that that’s what had happened to Mason. So his death was ruled accidental.
Speaker 3:
So the organ donation for Indiana, organ Donation, they did a video. They asked if they could do a video of Mason’s honor walk, which is, if you don’t know what an honor walk is for listeners, that is when they are taking them to surgery. People line the hall in silence out of a sign of respect, and there’s a whole history of it. But when they did the honor walk, they asked if they could record it for themselves, and so they did, and they posted it And I literally it had, i think, 30 million views in just a few weeks, and it was around the world.
Speaker 3:
So people were reaching out to me on Facebook Messenger just asking, you know, first offering condolences, keeping you in our prayers. We’re so sorry. Just know that we are talking to our children about this so that it doesn’t happen to other children. And I was getting hundreds of these messages from all around the world And I’d have to hit translate sometimes because it’s from an island and another country I’d never heard of, and so, anyway, that just made me think I have got to stand up and do more, because Mason would. He was always that leader. He was the one who stood up for the person who didn’t have a voice, And so I’m not an outspoken person, i am more of a private person. I am not the person who stands up on stage and gives speeches, but I have learned to find my voice in all of this through prayer and with Mason. So yeah, so that is how it kind of all started. Is me standing up to honor Mason, because that’s what he would have done?
Speaker 2:
First of all, thank you for sharing your story. I know that it can never be easy to tell, even as time goes by, and it’s so important for parents to hear these stories, because Mandy and I can talk about these things all day, but you’ve actually walked through it. One of the things that you said I want to circle back to because I just really want our parents to hear this Mason was a great kid. He was involved in things. He wasn’t struggling with any mental health issues.
Speaker 2:
As far as you know, you were having the conversations, you had the different things on your phone. You were talking about all the things, but things move so fast, like these challenges and these things online move so fast and our kids are still kids And a lot of times when parents or people hear these stories, they’re like how could they think this was okay? It’s because he was still 15 year old boy, but he was a great kid And that’s why all of these conversations where we’re constantly reading the pulse of culture and what’s on social media, because it does change so fast And it’s hard to keep up with. But I just want to say We know you’re a great mom and he was a great kid and this can happen to anyone.
Speaker 3:
And it could, and you know that is one thing. When parents ask, what can I do And I will, even after this podcast, every podcast I’ve done, every op-ed I’ve posted there are always those parents and non-parents, those people who say my kid would know better, my kid would never do that You are a horrible parent, you this. You know that, and I have to just ignore that because we know we were good parents and we did everything in our power to protect him online, You know. And something popped up on my memory not long ago on Facebook. It was where I posted Mason is 15. He’s got his cell phone, he wants to watch YouTube, because he was always watching YouTube how-to videos on how to make a better fishing lure and all of that. And I was asking I can’t figure out how to set the safety settings on this, does anyone know? And every parent was like me too, me too, me too. And so we finally figured it out.
Speaker 3:
But this still got through, because technology is just, it goes so fast, like you said, it is growing too fast, you know, and it’s almost like it has godlike power without godlike intelligence and morals behind it, you know, because this AI that we have right now is just it’s impossible. And parents the one thing when parents reach out to me now they say my kids are so tech savvy that I don’t know how to protect them online. You know, even if I decide I’m not going to let them on TikTok or I’m not going to give them social media, they still have access to those things They don’t have. They may not be able to post on there, but they can still see everything even without the apps. And so it’s very hard for parents to watch over them close enough. And if you have three different kids, three different ages, three different, you know, with all of the apps that they want to use out there, it’s very hard to, as a parent, to watch over all of that because it changes so quickly. And with that tech you know that is what they say that tech is. My kids are smarter than I am on tech, so I don’t know how to protect them on there. And so, you know, is taking away the phones the right thing to do? probably not. They need some kind. You know, parents with, especially with school shootings, they want to have that contact, they want to know. So maybe not a smartphone, but, you know, just a basic phone for texting and calling for those emergency situations.
Speaker 3:
You know there’s so much research out there right now on what’s safe and what’s not. The US Surgeon General just put out a warning that social media is not safe for young children. There’s just so much out there that the onus has to go back to the companies, the technology companies who develop these apps that keep our kids’ eyes on the screens. You know addiction to screens And there are so many harms out there that they can get themselves into because, like you said, they, their kids, their brains aren’t fully developed What they think is safe and okay and normal. You know, sending nudes right now, that is normal to so so many children. It’s crazy that by seventh grade, the percentage of kids who have sent a nude and received a nude it, but it’s normal to them so they don’t see the harm in it because they’ve been desensitized.
Speaker 1:
Oh well, i think our kids have been conditioned. You know, one of the things we tell parents is we actually teach kids and we don’t realize we’re doing it to like watch on a screen and emulate the behavior. So, for example, like our washing machine breaks down, like we YouTube it and we hold it up and we do whatever they’re telling us to do because we want to save $800 and fix our washer right, our kids want to learn how to apply makeup. We YouTube it and tell them to watch it and do it. And so sometimes even we’re guilty of not realizing, we’re guilty of teaching them to like watch on a screen and just do the behavior to learn whatever skill you want to learn.
Speaker 1:
And I do think you know one of the things we talk about is that thought process that needs to happen when kids watch on a screen and what happens next? Like is this behavior good for me? Is it what? kids are? impulsive and, like Kim said, they’re kids.
Speaker 1:
So, even if it’s almost like, we have to help our kids understand, if we can, to say, listen, even though we’ve had this conversation and you say you would never do it, you know your brain’s not fully developed yet, right, and you know you’re kind of impulsive, and so you’d really need to be on guard about this kind of thing. There’s so much here that is so hard to teach because kids are kids, and then on top of it, we have tech changing so fast and different social media challenges coming down the loop, and so you know, we’re a big build the conversation at home kind of organization, like that’s our whole mission, but we also feel like there’s so many different ways we can advocate for our kids online, and I think you’re doing some of that, too, in a lane that we’re not in, which is the legislative part, and so I think it’s so inspiring that you’ve taken this tragedy And and you’re found, finding purpose, you’re finding here’s where I want to help change and implement some new things, and so can you tell us about that? Sure.
Speaker 3:
So, you know, my first thought was spreading awareness. You know, after this happened to Mason, i thought, okay, i’ve got to spread awareness And so I created a friend of mine actually created it for me a Facebook page where I could post tips and things like that, and it’s called Mason’s Message And I just post on there like this is what kids are doing right now. This is what to look for on their phone. If you decide that social media is right for your family, these are things you need to look out for. Things that I have learned along the way that I had no idea existed before, which is, you know, like we said, it moves so fast that it’s impossible. It is impossible to get ahead of it. I know, like with Brian’s story with Walker, sex distortion is getting more and more common right now with these kiddos And parents don’t even know that it exists. They don’t have an opportunity to talk to them and say, hey, if this happens to you, come to me, there are options, we will work on it together. And so I think just having, like you said, that open dialogue with your kid and building that trust factor and just saying come to me if you feel a certain way or, if you think, a certain way, and I think most parents now know that social media and just the internet in general can be harmful. Like you said, there are so many things that we don’t even know about that are out there right now.
Speaker 3:
So one of the organizations that I volunteer with is Fair Play for Kids, and they do they advocate for safety for kids online, and so I co-lead a work group at that organization And we have about 50 members and about half of them are grieving parents who have lost a child to social media harms.
Speaker 3:
There is a Facebook support page that I met in and this still just makes me crazy to think about, but it’s a private, closed Facebook page just for parents who have lost a child to the choking challenge, and there are over 200 families in there. It just makes me crazy to think that this has been going on this long, and so when I volunteer with these organizations, i really love hearing from the other parents about what they’re doing Marine and Brian, the things that they’re doing in other states across the country because that just kind of snowballs And you get ideas and you brainstorm together on how to move forward and how to protect other kids so that this doesn’t happen to them, because there are so many harms I mean I could literally list you 50 harms right now that I guarantee your parents don’t know half of them, because we don’t know what we don’t know.
Speaker 1:
Well, and I want to make that connection for our listeners. You say Marine and Brian. So Marine Mollack is somebody that you guys are familiar with at Next Talk. She is David’s law, david’s legacy foundation and we’ve partnered with her for years. I met Marine in 2016, when I was writing my first book and wanted to share some of David’s story in my book, and now, since you’ve heard Walker’s story, you teamed up with Brian, and so Brian and Marine is part of this coalition that is doing this work. And to me, marine said something to me the other day that just stuck with me And she said we’re in the club nobody wants to be in, but it’s a support group and it’s very valuable, and that was like it made me like cry and it made me also smile, because it’s sad and so beautiful at the same time.
Speaker 3:
It’s very bittersweet when you have parents who can stand next to you and hold you up when you’re faltering and you can hold them up when they’re low, because we have those anniversaries and we just try to support each other through that. But it’s also very inspiring when you have them going to DC with you and sitting next to you telling all of our stories to senators. Going to your state legislators and asking for help. Going to your state legislators to get state laws put in place, to get education in schools on internet safety and online safety. All of those things are just it’s bittersweet. Every time I tell Mason’s story, i love to say his name across my lips. I was blessed with 15 years of beautiful memories. God bless me with that and I cherish everyone, even the tough days when I don’t want to go to school, i don’t want to get out of bed. You know the sassiness. I miss all of that. But yes, that partnership, that club that we’re in, that no one wants to be in, as you said, it is bittersweet.
Speaker 2:
I think what’s so incredible about that and I just want to say thank you, and I think this is what Mandy was getting to. It would be so easy and understandable to stay in your grief and not move forward with help for change, like we would understand that And the fact that you take this tragedy each of you in this bittersweet club and you’re using that to push forward and make changes for other kids. We get to receive that gift because you guys are so brave and selfless, so thank you for the work that you’re doing.
Speaker 3:
It’s my honor to do it, like I said, in memory of Mason, to honor him and what he would have done. It’s not important to me. So one of the things that we’re advocating right now for is the Kids Online Safety Act, which is a federal bill that would put the responsibility back on the platforms to say you know parents aren’t asking for a free pass, you know we don’t want to watch over our kids. It’s we can’t do it ourselves. So if they would put up those guardrails, automatically turn on the safety features for young users, age verification, those types of things, if they would just put those in place, it would make it so much easier. One if you wanted to allow your child on social media, because there are children who benefit from social media. I mean it is not a hard no for the entire world, but there have to be some guardrails up for that. It has to change before that is an okay yes, because right now they’re just exposed to so much that it’s not safe, and we know that and the mental health of it.
Speaker 1:
I think parents need all the tools in their tool belt that we can get, and so this is an extra tool to help keep our kids safe online. So it’s not this and no conversation, it’s the both, and it’s this and all the conversations. It’s this and the internet safety information. It’s this and the monitoring and the software. You know all of it working together. There’s no one simple solution Exactly, and what I love about this, though and I’ll tell you, i get asked this all the time at Next Talk is okay, great, you’re working for the advocacy of helping parents have the tough conversations in the home, but what about the parents who aren’t involved with their kids?
Speaker 1:
And they have a phone and you’re not going to reach them because they’re they’re they’re not interested right, either they’re not present or whatever, and the kids still have access. So this is a way to help those kids that, even with a non involved parent, if there’s some automated guardrails, like you said, put in place with some safety measures, that could be helpful. If it saves one kid, let’s try it right. That’s where I go with it.
Speaker 3:
Exactly, and there are a lot of pieces that need to come into play. Parents need to be more diligent. You know, i felt like I was a diligent parent, but you know, one thing that I always, i truly, truly believe in is, if you decide that social media is right for your kiddos and you let them on there, be on that app too. So, if you allow them on TikTok or Facebook, be on that app, because you’re going to learn so much and do the homework, you know. Is this age appropriate? How do I do the safety settings? It takes a lot, but if you decide to let them on there, that’s just kind of you have to, you have to.
Speaker 3:
And, like I said, i had all that with Mason and this still got through. So that tells me I can’t do it alone. I did everything that a parent knows how to do And I’m sure that saved him from some things, exposure to some things but it didn’t save him from this. And that is where these platforms the social media platforms, the companies, the tech companies they need to have that moral standpoint of we need to do better, we need to protect kids And we know how, and so we need to put those measures in place And until we get there, not much will change. From now It will only get worse, and that can come from parent education, child education, and not just parent education on the platform, but how to talk to your kids.
Speaker 3:
Some parents don’t know how to talk to their kids. Some parents don’t know how to choose between my kid is the only one at the bus stop, not on social media. Kids don’t call each other, they text and they use social media. If my kid is the only one without a phone and it’s not a full community going all in, then they have the seclusion and the depression from that. So it’s hard, it is a fight, and that screen time fight is in every home. I don’t know a parent that can say it isn’t. So I mean, i think it’s all in, whether it’s litigation, litigation, legislation, education it has to be from so many angles so many angles, a hundred percent.
Speaker 1:
It takes all of us working together to keep our kids safe. We always say technology is blindsided, all of us. And it’s why, you see, in schools, you know parents are saying why aren’t schools doing more, you know, and why aren’t everybody’s pointing the finger at everybody? Well, we’re all struggling to keep up with it And we’re all doing the best we know how, and it’s really nobody’s fault. It’s just the technology is moving so fast And we’re all scrambling to get a hold of it And so technology has blindsided all of us as parents.
Speaker 1:
And I think you know I’ve been in this 10 years trying to learn how to be a parent and writing about it and going on sharing my journey about it, and there’s things I go back and think I did that wrong, i didn’t get that right. I wish I could have done that. Like we’re all learning. It is a. I even go the extra at events and say please don’t ever call Next Talk a digital parenting expert. I mean you can’t say you’re an expert. We are all in the trial guinea pig, experimental stages of this, of parenting, social media and what the effects. I think it’s going to be research for years and years to come right And we’re going to look back and think, ah, we got that right, we didn’t get that right.
Speaker 2:
Dr, So important that all of these organizations are now like coming together and connecting because we can do our lane of the parent support and helping create that culture of conversation in the home. And then you and Maureen are over here working in the legislative side And that is making a huge difference so that we can connect all these tools together to help keep our kids safe as best we can. Because there is no one answer It has to come from the school, It has to come from the home, because it does move so fast. So I’m glad that you are really digging in there and actually making some change, because we know that’s a hard battle with the legislation.
Speaker 3:
It is, it is a and it’s still ongoing. You know, we, there are a group of parents in DC right now that are trying to get senators to cosponsor this Kids Online Safety Act. And then there’s you know, there’s just so many sides of it parents trying to get the education in schools. All of those things play a role And it’s a lot It is. But I don’t know how to just sit on the sideline and wait. I only know that I need to do something And for me right now, these things are the some things, whether I’m doing a podcast to spread awareness, whether I’m trying to get education put in schools in Indiana, or going to DC to speak to senators and congressmen and women and just ask them you know, please support this bill, you know, because it’s going to make a difference, it’s going to change things so that we don’t lose more masons and more David’s and, you know, more walkers, because it happens almost every week I get a phone call from a parent who has lost a child from a social media harm, and it’s a process. Doing all of that, you have to find what is going to get you up that next day. What is, you know? obviously, for me, prayer gets me up, it gets me moving And God nudges me in so many ways between him and Mason sending me messages. They’re so blatant I can’t, i can’t deny them. So I mean I get those obvious messages that say you do need to do this, you do need to go here, you do need to speak, you do need to say this or that.
Speaker 3:
A parent asks, or another group of parents in my Bible study they did ask one time. They said you know, do you ever get angry with God? Are you mad at him? And I said no. I question Why did you not save my child? Why couldn’t I have him back? I do have that question and he’ll answer it. He will, and he did that day when they asked me that. Because I said you know, i do have that question. And one of the moms spoke up and she said but your no was five yeses from God, because those other five parents, those other five families who were praying for their child, for their family member to be saved by an organ, came from Mason. So my one no was still five yeses from God, and, and more than five, but for five individual people, yeses. And it just kind of put it into perspective for me that I have to remember. There’s a huge picture out there. I am one tiny role that I’m playing, so I just try to follow God’s lead and figure this out as we go.
Speaker 1:
I think this is a lot about your faith, joanne, for you to be able to accept that from God as the answer, because we still want our yes And we still want to be selfish with our yes, Absolutely, and I just think that says a lot about who you are and your faith in God, and I think it’s very beautiful, quite honestly.
Speaker 2:
And those are the only five yeses we know about. Think of the thousands of families that are having these hard conversations that you may never meet in, all these other kids that might be saved.
Speaker 3:
And it’s people like you that do these podcasts and who talk to parents and who have those hard conversations and convince parents to have the hard conversations. It’s people like you who are also doing that work, who you know. You’re putting it out there, you’re taking your time to put it out there, and that’s important, it’s very important And I appreciate that And I appreciate that.
Speaker 1:
I know you’re probably the mentor for getting the calls of the parents who have lost kids because you’ve walked that and you can be there for them. Our calls are often because we heard this podcast. this happened to my kid and they came to me and we figured it out And so we get a lot of those calls and we had a ton after Walker that the same challenge that happened to Walker happened to this family. you know, the conversations saved them And so I think what Kim was saying there is the five yeses of the organ donors and all these kids that you’re helping through your advocacy and all the kids you’re going to help in the future through all the work that you’re doing. I just I can’t say thank you enough.
Speaker 3:
Well, and it is a broad thank you. I mean I certainly don’t do this alone. There are other parents, like Maureen and Brian, and my friend Kristen Bride. She lost her son to suicide after being cyber bullied, and there are so many things going on out there that it does take a whole. You know, i used to say it takes a village and now I’m like, no, really, it takes the whole world coming together. We can fix some of this stuff because it has gotten out of hand And it’s up to us as parents and people who care and good Christians, to say, okay, let’s fix this, let’s do something about it And let’s not shut up until it is fixed.
Speaker 1:
I just want to say again thank you for your time, Thank you for all the work that you’re doing, Thank you for just your faith. It’s beautiful And and there aren’t a lot of words.
Speaker 3:
Well, I want to thank both of you for having me on and sharing Mason’s story so that other parents are aware.
Speaker 2:
And we’ll make sure. If people are interested in learning more about some of the legislation or getting in contact with you, we’ll make sure to include that in the notes of the show so people can reach out to you. And if we hear any follow up stories, we’ll share those with you too, because we do appreciate your bravery and willingness to to share your family with us.
Speaker 3:
Thank you, i appreciate it.
Speaker 1:
Thank you so much for joining us, listening and sharing our podcast. Because of you, this show is in the top 5% of over 2.9 million podcasts.
Speaker 2:
We have lots of resources for you, from counseling to live events. Or if you have a show idea or a question for our team, visit our website at nexttalkorg. We’d love to hear from you.
Speaker 1:
At Next Talk. We’re more than cyber parenting. It’s conversations to connect.
Speaker 3:
This podcast is not intended to replace the advice of a trained healthcare or legal professional, or to diagnose, treat or otherwise render expert advice regarding any type of medical psychological or legal problem.
Speaker 2:
Listeners are advised to consult a qualified expert for treatment.
This podcast is not intended to replace the advice of a trained healthcare or legal professional, or to diagnose, treat, or otherwise render expert advice regarding any type of medical, psychological, or legal problem. Listeners are advised to consult a qualified expert for treatment.
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