0:00:00 – Speaker 1
nextTalk contains content of a mature nature. Parental guidance is advised. Welcome to nextTalk Radio with Mandy and Kim on AM 630, the word. Mandy is the author of Talk and Kim is the director of nextTalk, a nonprofit organization helping parents cyber parent through open communication. Follow us on Facebook, Instagram and Twitter, find our video series and subscribe to our weekly podcast at NextTalkorg. Are you ready for the nextTalk?
0:00:34 – Speaker 2
Today’s show is about how to stay mentally healthy during a crisis. It’s kind of a follow-up show to the one Mandy and I did kind of thinking about it and talking about it from a parenting perspective. But we wanted to invite one of our favorite folks and advisory council members to join us. Licensed professional therapists, jamie and Rashawn welcome back, thank you for having me.
0:00:55 – Speaker 3
It’s good to be here.
0:00:56 – Speaker 4
Jamie’s on our advisory council. She’s awesome. Like when we have a mental health crisis or somebody contacts us, we’re like texting her right away. Like are we saying the right things? What do we need to do?
0:01:06 – Speaker 3
Point them to this show kind of thing, and then I point people back to nextTalk and all my clients I’m like you have to follow nextTalk.
0:01:14 – Speaker 4
It’s a full circle, it’s a full circle.
0:01:16 – Speaker 3
We have our people.
0:01:17 – Speaker 4
We were supposed to have met a couple of years ago when we did. It seems crazy that that was a couple of years ago.
0:01:22 – Speaker 3
I think but you’re married.
0:01:25 – Speaker 4
You have three littles. What?
0:01:26 – Speaker 3
are their ages. We are at five, three and a half and 18 months.
0:01:30 – Speaker 4
So what I love about this is you are parenting in this pandemic, just like we are Absolutely Figuring it out one day at a time, but you are a licensed professional counselor. I feel like we all need that degree right now, and so what we really wanted to do was, like you have an opportunity to give our families a counseling session, absolutely Through this right now, because they can’t go in. A lot of them are scared to go in, or they may not be able to get in, or they may not know a good counselor, and we need to help our families because I’m really worried about the mental health of everyone as we go through this.
0:02:04 – Speaker 3
Absolutely, and I think that’s wise, because we don’t want to panic, but we want to be wise and we want to be discerning and we want to get equipped, because a lot of us are in a situation we’ve never been in, and so with that I mean we have to have tons of grace for ourselves. Just allow new feelings, allow just unexpected things to be exposed in your heart or in your attitude or just in your home that you have never been struggling with before. So expect that that’s normal and past shows. I’ve given this analogy, but I think it’s helpful and useful right now. And it’s a.
You know, you jump into a cold pool, it’s freezing, it’s uncomfortable, but if you jump out, you never get the opportunity to let the situation warm up. So what I mean by that is we all have our hot tub thing, which is our escape. So you jump into a freezing, cold pool, it’s uncomfortable, a hot tub next door. You jump into the hot tub because it’s more comfortable. What is that hot tub? It’s a void. It’s escape. It can be unhealthy coping mechanisms. It could be operating out of emotion, operating out of fear. You’re going to eat more, you’re going to isolate more, just meaning like I’m just going to go into another room and let my kids spend for themselves in the other room. But stay in that cold pool because the longer you’re in it it’s going to warm up. This is going to become our new norm and it is going to be okay.
0:03:28 – Speaker 4
I love when you use that analogy. The first time you told me about it, you said we’re all in this together, so it’s you and your kids jumping in, and you use it as like the awkward conversation Right, we’re all in this together it’s all awkward, yes. But now we’re jumping into this cool pool of parenting in a pandemic where we are like what is happening? I mean it is hard to wrap your head around that the world is shutting down?
0:03:53 – Speaker 3
Yeah, because I think with that comes fear, and a lot of us can even resort back to just childhood. Some of us have grown up with scarcity and so it’s a time and place where that little child in you comes out and you get worried of going back to that. Or we also can be in a place where abundance has become our comfort, so when we don’t have what we need in abundance, it can immediately.
0:04:20 – Speaker 4
Yes, it’s really, you know we’ve we’ve joked for years about first world problems, but this really puts it in perspective. It does yeah, and I think that’s why how spoiled we are.
0:04:31 – Speaker 3
Right, just that instant gratification and just you know again. Just, we don’t like a feeling, we don’t like something. We stay busy, we just distract, and so we aren’t able to use those things right now.
0:04:43 – Speaker 4
So I feel like this pandemic is forcing everybody to kind of look in the mirror, like look in the mirror and be like, okay, I got to deal with this because I can’t go out and drink tonight, right, or I can’t go out with my girlfriends tonight and escape this, and they’re looking at their family and there may be a lot to deal with.
0:05:02 – Speaker 3
Exactly. They’re used to running from Very true and I think to some of us, you know, we’ve just fallen into this where we get our routines and we are so busy just serving in so many capacities, the most important capacity some of us haven’t always been freed up to, which is being at home with our littles. And that doesn’t come from a place of judgment, it just comes from a place of where society has kind of positioned us.
0:05:29 – Speaker 4
That’s the norm. We’re like robots.
0:05:31 – Speaker 2
Right, we’re about our schedule. You’re almost judged if you’re not busy. Exactly.
0:05:35 – Speaker 3
That’s a great point. Look at this as an opportunity to get to know your kids more and for them to get to know you more. And it’s going to feel a little uncomfortable because, again, these are new roles. These are new. I mean, you’ve always been a parent, but just the capacity looks different right now.
0:05:52 – Speaker 2
I’m glad that you said earlier about give yourself some grace, yeah, because things are going to come up that you don’t expect. I think that’s really important for people to hear, because we’re suddenly in this new, not only schedule but environment.
0:06:02 – Speaker 1
0:06:03 – Speaker 2
And I was just speaking with Mandy about like my husband might have to work from home and he had a half day the other day and he’s like, oh, it’s just so loud because it’s different being home and working from home, right, and he’s used to going to an office where he can go into a quiet space and that’s just not the case when you’re working from home and so that can trigger all kinds of things that you’re not expecting, right.
0:06:24 – Speaker 4
You feel overwhelmed, you feel unstable.
0:06:26 – Speaker 2
Yes, All kinds of things.
0:06:27 – Speaker 3
It’s something you know. So I, as an LPC, I work two days a week and the rest of the time I’m at home. So I’m home a lot and one of the things that has been so helpful on a practical level is just knowing that, like those little things, like just doing your laundry, doing your dishes, all those things God is being glorified through all of that and he is pleased by all of that. So that’s been so helpful because sometimes you know, like you’re saying, you’re at home and we’re just going through this day to day and we’re just like what is my purpose?
Like it feels like Groundhog Day you wake up and you’re like do it all again. And so I have found so much comfort in my own heart of just knowing like God is glorified in that day to day he’s glorified by folding the laundry or, you know, kissing the boo-boo and all this stuff. So sometimes you may not get a lot accomplished, but just maintaining your household being present. You know cooking Well and he sees it, he does.
0:07:25 – Speaker 4
You may feel invisible, like nobody. I felt like that two days of homeschooling and working from home. And I’m like, oh my gosh, does anybody realize how hard this is? Well, I’m like, oh yeah, the whole world is like well, you know, you get that selfish Like does anybody see how?
0:07:41 – Speaker 3
Right, because a lot of us are coming from jobs where we’re getting those emails Great job on the project or we love what you did with this. So we’re getting a lot of affirmation and a lot of just work, evals, and at home those aren’t happening.
0:07:55 – Speaker 2
Oh, it stops at its judgment.
0:07:57 – Speaker 3
0:07:58 – Speaker 2
You did that chicken.
0:07:59 – Speaker 3
You did that answer wrong. That house isn’t cleaning up. Yes, where’s my underwear?
0:08:05 – Speaker 2
Yes, it’s like totally opposite I think this whole discussion.
0:08:08 – Speaker 4
Just, we are going to have new roles and we’re going to have to create new coping skills and we need to realize that and talk about it with each other.
I think that’s going to be so important. I mean, last night I told my husband I’m struggling, like I need help, and you know, my whole thing was I wanted to just lash out and be like do you know how. But instead I spent enough time with you, jamie, to know that the healthy way was to lay it all out there for him in a calm manner, and then he was willing to just step in and help Absolutely and ask for what you need, right.
0:08:42 – Speaker 2
Ask for exactly.
0:08:44 – Speaker 4
Like last night I said I just need some time to do laundry.
0:08:47 – Speaker 3
Yes. Like I feel like that will help me feel like everything’s not spiraling and that’s a really big deal. And I think another thing is that you know, like you said, just that calmness, so like if you have a whole chocolate cake, you can eat it, but it doesn’t mean it’s best for you. And so I think sometimes with our thoughts, we have thoughts, but just because we have them doesn’t mean we have to say them.
0:09:10 – Speaker 4
And so I so that right there, we got to pause, because I feel like we’re all going to need a filter right now. Right, we’re all going to get on each other’s nerves.
0:09:17 – Speaker 1
0:09:17 – Speaker 4
We’re going to be in close quarters and I feel like this is super important to say to our kids.
0:09:24 – Speaker 3
0:09:24 – Speaker 4
It’s okay for you to have this feeling or this thought towards me.
0:09:27 – Speaker 3
But let’s practice self-control.
0:09:29 – Speaker 4
0:09:30 – Speaker 3
Because the thing of it is is like conflict is good and healthy, but if it’s not done correctly it becomes combat, which is wounding and it’s destructive. Oh, that’s good so it’s really not what you have to say, it’s how you have to say it and it’s also just withholding things that aren’t necessary Because, like I said, with the whole chocolate cake, yeah, you can eat the whole thing, but it doesn’t mean it’s good. Yeah, you can say whatever you’re thinking, but just kind of learn to just be okay with not saying certain things.
0:09:57 – Speaker 2
And it might feel good in the moment too. That’s real good, shayne, just like the cake or just like yelling. It might feel good in the moment to get it out.
0:10:02 – Speaker 1
But how will you feel afterwards?
0:10:03 – Speaker 2
But then in the long run, yeah, you feel sick from eating too much cake or hurting someone that you really care about.
0:10:08 – Speaker 3
And when you do have those moments, look for it as an opportunity to practice forgiveness. Look at it as an opportunity to talk through like hey, I shouldn’t have handled it that way If I had a rewind button, this would have been a more God honoring way or a better way to have handled that. So when you don’t get it right because you won’t always, that’s where the grace comes in Look at it as an opportunity to just practice forgiveness practice of how I could have done that better.
0:10:35 – Speaker 4
Love that, you know. Two days into homeschooling and my son looked at me at dinner and he’s like you are really snippy. And he was right like he was right, because I was feeling out of control and like how are we gonna do this? Everything needs to be. We worked at nextTalk and all the things and I apologized to him and I was like, listen, I’ve never parented in the quarantine situation like this, I have never homeschooled and I’m not gonna get it right.
0:10:59 – Speaker 3
And I’m so sorry and I think like a really good thing was. You know, like at New Year’s every family will maybe come up with a word you know, and so maybe come up with a word with Corona, like Grace is your family word, or forgiveness.
0:11:13 – Speaker 4
Oh, I love that, so like you have a word that you can remind each other of when it’s getting real tough.
0:11:19 – Speaker 3
Right and like what does this word look like, played out practically in our house? Or how can we pray through this word or whatever, just that word that just kind of brings you back.
0:11:28 – Speaker 2
0:11:29 – Speaker 4
Corona word your, corona word your.
0:11:31 – Speaker 3
Corona word. That’s gotta be a song Right, not a dance.
0:11:36 – Speaker 2
You heard it here first people the Corona word.
0:11:39 – Speaker 4
The Corona word Right.
0:11:41 – Speaker 3
But really just that thing that brings you back. And you know, I’m all about having fun in the midst of all this, because I feel like chaos is going to, inevitably it’s gonna be there. But if you can create chaos in a healthy, controlled way, it will be a lot better. So it might be eating dinner and flipping your table upside down and saying we’re having upside dinner tonight, we’re having breakfast. It’s a way to manage a healthy, chaotic feeling in a controlled way where your kids are like oh, this is fun. Or if you have a disco light, just disco dinner or a disco bath, finding ways to have fun. And that’s a great way for kids to kind of let their fun out in a controlled way.
0:12:22 – Speaker 4
I think this is so important to kind of have fun and make I know it’s such a terrible situation right now and people are struggling and jobs are being lost. Lives are being lost. I get that, but I do think it helps kids. You know my kids are older so we have a group text. So we share the funny memes about toilet paper and like all the things Humor in our group text.
0:12:43 – Speaker 3
It helps us suppress it.
0:12:44 – Speaker 4
They’ve done studies for sure it really does help us to kind of make light of the chaos that you said, because I think we’re gonna feel chaos within.
0:12:55 – Speaker 3
And so we need to work on practical ways on what that’s gonna look like.
0:12:59 – Speaker 2
If you’re just not tuning in, this is nextTalk Radio at 2 pm on AM 6 30, the Word. nextTalk Radio is sponsored in part by the PAX Financial Group and listeners just like you. Everything we do at our nonprofit to keep kids safe online is accomplished through your donations To support our organization. Go to nexttalkorg and click on give.
0:13:27 – Speaker 1
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0:13:53 – Speaker 3
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0:13:59 – Speaker 2
Today we’re talking about how to stay mentally healthy during a crisis, and we are blessed to have our dear friend and one of our advisory council members, jamie Mershan, on the show. She is a licensed professional therapist, which is amazing.
0:14:11 – Speaker 3
We’re getting a free counseling session right now we’re getting a free counseling session my favorite. I love coping.
0:14:16 – Speaker 2
You’ve given us some great tips so far. We’re just talking about how do we cope with this, how do we stay strong mentally for ourselves and for our kids?
0:14:22 – Speaker 3
Yes, well, before the break we talked about that chaos and I think when we have that going on within, we want our house to feel clean, because we don’t want to live in chaos, because we feel it within.
But bring back the messes because, let me tell you, being at home with littles, here’s what I’ve learned about messes you can’t teach problem solving common sense and creativity.
That has to be developed.
But with that comes messes.
So, giving your kids opportunities to bring back the messes, but then also you can schedule clean up sessions. So maybe at 10, you do a reset, and then at one you do a reset, and then at four, and so you just kind of set reset times where it’s just like you let your kids be creative, you let them do their play time or whatever, and it’s gonna look messy and chaotic and you’re like whoa, but that’s where you have to understand like kids need that and that’s gonna help them. And if you schedule those resets times, just know it’s like, okay, at 10, we’re gonna get order again, at one we’re gonna get order again, and so that’s a great thing just for kids to learn in general to be responsible and a good steward of their things. But I think that will help parents too, kind of help with not freaking out with the messes in our house, because a lot of us, you know, when we leave for the day, our house is just sitting, but now we have little ones or kids all day long. You know, creating and making messes.
0:15:47 – Speaker 4
A lot depends on your personality here, you know I’m an Enneagram one, so the messes for me stress me out a lot. And I think you need to recognize that in your kids.
0:15:56 – Speaker 3
0:15:57 – Speaker 4
If they are like a perfectionist and they like order, this may be really hard for them. Absolutely and so help them find ways where maybe their room can be off. You know, there it can be perfect and they can go in there in the bed. Everything could be made and tidied, but then that’s your zone.
0:16:12 – Speaker 3
0:16:13 – Speaker 4
Out here it’s going to not be as crazy.
0:16:15 – Speaker 2
I love that we do a space which is kind of what you’re saying we have a space for each person. Like my husband has a drawer, like he does not clean that drawer but he likes everything else to be organized, like in the bedroom For the kids we have a playroom that I can close the door on. So all week they can build and create and I mean it looks it’s just a nightmare.
0:16:35 – Speaker 4
Don’t even go in there.
0:16:36 – Speaker 2
No, it’s. But at the end of the week, on Fridays, we know, okay, it’s time to kind of reset everything down and reset. Everybody has their little space. I love that order. So in my spaces there’s order, but it gives everybody a kind of a place to go away, Right?
0:16:50 – Speaker 4
Well, and I think even people who aren’t Enneagram ones right now, they’re looking for kind of organization because the world is so crazy, right. So they want control.
0:17:00 – Speaker 3
Yes, Absolutely so let’s just talk about just some practical ways of just staying mentally healthy. Yes, one is just stay connected to your loved ones, go outside when you’re able, get that vitamin D. Yoga is great, movement is great, because here’s the thing A lot of us are feeling stuck. So if you’re able, it’s just packing up the kids and going for a drive. In plain eyes, spy, like I said, yoga, walking, hiking in nature, dancing find things that bring you joy crafts, facetime with family friends, baking house projects, watch comedy. Keep your minds active scripture, puzzles, books, games, podcasts. Learn something new.
0:17:38 – Speaker 4
So see all these great tips. We look at that from a practical standpoint, but as a counselor, you’re saying this is actually good for your mental health, absolutely. You know, I look at that as just waste of time and practical stuff but you’re saying this keeps you mentally healthy, absolutely.
0:17:52 – Speaker 3
Yes and like just kill the ants, and the ants are automatic negative thoughts. So this is practicing just like different ways to reframe it. How can I look at this in a different kind of way? Limit social media, develop new routines and then stick to reliable sources, and so that could be the CDC, john Hopkins, mayo Clinic, and so those are health organization.
0:18:13 – Speaker 4
Yes, okay, so I love what you said about ants. Say that again.
0:18:16 – Speaker 3
Yes, so it’s automatic negative thoughts.
0:18:19 – Speaker 2
So A and O automatic negative thoughts? Yes.
0:18:23 – Speaker 4
So I feel like this is a good thing to teach our kids. I was just going to say that I love that. Because we can say when fear creeps in, when the overwhelming feelings creep in, should they speak it out loud to us. Yeah, just so that we can help them control the ants.
0:18:38 – Speaker 3
Yes, and you can give the kids like an ant thinking so it would be a negative thing, like, oh, my word, you know the world’s going to shut down, and then help them reframe that. Okay, so what would killing that ant look like? The world’s going to maybe shut down for two weeks. That is much easier to cope with and much easier for us to handle than the world’s going to shut down forever, forever. So, helping kids reframe, so you give them examples of what an ant thought would sound like and then help them reframe it to what would be better. Because here’s the thing the rain comes and oftentimes we go right to the tornado and it’s not catastrophizing the situation. So it’s like, yeah, the rain is here, the wind is picking up, but the tornado isn’t here. Now, let’s be wise. The tornado may come, we’re not going to live in denial, but let’s meet the storm where it’s at. Because if we automatically go right to the tornado, that’s fear, that’s panic, that’s catastrophizing and that’s just going to intensify feelings.
0:19:41 – Speaker 4
I feel like this is so good, I can’t even speak.
0:19:45 – Speaker 2
Stay in the rain. This is really good.
0:19:48 – Speaker 4
This is like one step at a time, but I love your analogy of the tornado and the rain Because I think we can all relate to that.
0:19:55 – Speaker 2
Absolutely, and that helps our kids too, If we can walk them through that, keep them focused on what’s actually happening, Because I know one of my kids he will. He’ll look out and he’ll be like tornado, tornado, tornado. Yeah, when really it’s like, you know it’s a drizzle, it’s a beginning to rain stage. Yeah, and so I think that will help so much to explain that Well and the ant too, because you know, I know I, I sense from kids.
0:20:18 – Speaker 4
You know their main thing is what if I get corona, like what? If I get it and then we can talk with them. Well, most kids do fine with this. They, you know we’re, we’re quarantining, we’re locking down to protect the elderly and we’re protecting, you know, everybody around us who are, who are compromise their immune system.
0:20:33 – Speaker 3
And just talk to them at their level. So what is your worst fear if you do get corona and they’re like I’m going to die? Okay, well, right there, they’ve expressed their worst fear. And so then talk about what a more realistic fear would look like. So the realistic fear is if you get it, you’re probably going to have a runny nose. You know you’re going to have a cough. And so talk to them at their level of what a more realistic fear would look like, because that’s another way to reframe it. You’re going from their extreme to more like if you would get it. This is what it looks like in a child.
0:21:02 – Speaker 2
So have Fighting fear with truth.
0:21:04 – Speaker 4
Yes, I think really well, and I think I think we need this is a balance here, right, because we don’t want to dismiss their fears. Absolutely want to acknowledge them and meet them in that moment, but then help them break it down right to take it from a negative thought and reframe it, just like yeah. We’re saying with the ants right, yes.
0:21:22 – Speaker 3
Okay, more realistic. So you’re not dismissing it. You’re like, yes, that’s a real fear, but let’s reframe that to a more realistic fear, yeah, and allow them, give them permission and thank them. I’m so glad that you told me that I love hearing About your fear so I can help you with that. That way they don’t feel like a burden. And I think another thing that is really helpful is that kids tend to go inward and they think how it’s going to affect them. So even looking, that is, how can I serve others? So it could just be writing messages or cards for health care workers, even if they may never even get those actual cards. It’s one of those things where you can take a picture and if they know a nurse, it’s like we’re gonna we’re gonna say thank you for serving us, send a picture or put it on social media.
0:22:05 – Speaker 4
0:22:06 – Speaker 3
Yes, yeah, and so maybe it’s like you know what let’s figure out how we can make our home more peaceful or Cozy or calming, or how can I help our neighbors. She’s got tons of leaves out front, like let me you know, what we did the other day is I had three white trash bags and we made an Olaf out of leaves and so oh, so, again bringing in the fun.
I love that looking at other ways you can serve others, or even just looking down, looking for ways you’re grateful, like how has God Like showing up today? Where do we see God in this? And so that’s another great way To just reframe that anxiety and give yourself permission to have yes days as a mom and lots of grace. Like today, it’s just gonna be a yes day. We may have too much TV, we maybe didn’t get enough school cream for lunch.
0:22:56 – Speaker 2
I just cream for lunch right today.
0:22:58 – Speaker 3
Yes, I are needed because you know what you need to feel success in this, and part of that is just we’re not gonna fight today. You know kids, they need boundaries, they need discipline, they need consequences. Yes, as a whole, that’s the goal. But, yes, days once a week Maybe it’s Friday or you mix it up. You know you are going to be fine.
0:23:19 – Speaker 4
Yeah, you’re so grace I love that yes much. Well, and I feel like right now, we’re feeling like failures a lot. I’m feeling like a failure a lot. I’m not cut out for homeschooling, I’m all the things, so so just finding the places where I am doing Well, like yeah, like reminding yourself of that, you know, one thing that we’ve done is read the Bible every day and I’m like you know what I may be failing at homeschool, but we’re digging into the word and I’ve had to remind myself of that like I’m doing something right.
0:23:43 – Speaker 3
Well, and I think, even just talking about the enemy like where can we see the enemy in this? He’s gonna want us to be fearful. He’s gonna want just unity in our home.
So, like he’s gonna want fighting between brothers and sisters. So what does it look like when we can identify like, hey, you’re not my enemy, you know, I love that. What does unity look like? Who can be the peacekeeper in this? Where can we have a timeout room if somebody just needs a break? Like you’re not in trouble, I’m not sending you away, but you just need a break and so helping kids identify when they need that timeout Like you’re not in trouble, but I can just tell the grumpies are coming out this is a great time for you to just take a little u-time and Help kids discern what they need to and what that’s gonna look like. Or maybe they’re hungry. I mean like if I’m hungry, I’m gonna have some feelings.
0:24:31 – Speaker 2
I have said many times I have one that the the food thing really affects him and I’ll Get down and I look him in the eyes. I say I want to talk to you about this and we’re gonna work it through, but you need to eat first, yeah, and they will fight you on it, but it’s like working with a whole different kid once he’s had food, yes, and so sometimes it’s simple like that and I think having reasonable expectations and knowing that you know your kids Absolutely no them that helps and you know we’ve talked about in past sessions to have.
0:24:58 – Speaker 3
Just like you know, christ, he’s giving us the feel for this day by day. He’s going to equip us, he’s given us what we need. So, just like we’re teaching the kids about an enemy for them, it’s for us too. He wants us to let loose in our kids, he wants us to be impatient, so just identifying when the enemy is getting ahold of you as well.
0:25:20 – Speaker 4
Absolutely and God is in control, and we keep reminding ourselves of that in our home like worst-case scenario. God’s goddess, god has us.
0:25:28 – Speaker 2
Yes, was coming.
0:25:29 – Speaker 4
Yeah, amen. Thank you for being with us today. Jamie, of course, thank you for having me.
0:25:33 – Speaker 1
Thanks for joining us on nextTalk radio with Mandy and Kim on AM 630 the word. You are not alone Trying to figure out how to parent in this digital world. We are here with practical solutions to help you. Follow us on Facebook, instagram and Twitter. Find our video series and podcast at nextTalk. Or are you ready for the next time?
Transcribed by https://podium.page