0:00:03 – Speaker 1
Hey, this is Mandy and Kim with nextTalk, where we are passionate about keeping kids safe in the digital world.
0:00:09 – Speaker 2
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0:00:16 – Speaker 2
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0:00:36 – Speaker 3
Hey guys, it’s Mandy here. I am sick, as you can tell from my voice, And Kim is not with me, but I have a special guest, My husband Dun dun dun.
0:00:51 – Speaker 4
Yeah, thanks for that introduction. I’m also sick. I have no clue where I might have gotten that from, but yeah, it’s a bit of a challenge in our house right now.
0:01:00 – Speaker 3
We’ve had a rough go at it as a start to 2022. I mean, we’re done. We’re done with sickness, right, babe?
0:01:07 – Speaker 4
Yeah, i mean I had a rough 2021 as well, being sick, and I thought that I had gotten it all out of the way. And yeah, 2022 has proven to be a continuation of 2021, for sure.
0:01:19 – Speaker 3
Here we go again, here we go again I think it’s because we’re getting old. We’re in survival mode. Yes, you know. Before we get going, matt, just in case people don’t know, you give us some background, your work, that kind of stuff.
0:01:34 – Speaker 4
Well, i work just in the normal world. I’m not a pastor in any type of ministry of that nature. I just have been doing for the past almost 30 years I guess 25, 30 years basically normal business type work. I’m always excited to be able to work with nextTalk and you and when you invite me, and also Charles. Charles and I, which is Charles Kim’s husband, we have a nextTalk Dad Show. That we do. We really enjoy that. We’re kind of working through that and we don’t try. It’s hard for us to be able to fit in our limited windows of time to be able to record, but we really have enjoyed doing that.
0:02:18 – Speaker 3
Well, and we’ve gotten some great feedback, because y’all just have a different perspective than we do.
0:02:23 – Speaker 4
We’re moms, we’re dads When you say you all when you say you all, is that like, how like you all as men, as dads, or what way? Yes, all of the above.
0:02:36 – Speaker 3
All of the above, y’all dads, guys.
0:02:40 – Speaker 4
So I think, as guys, we definitely have a dramatically different view than you and Kim. I’m speaking for Charles now. I probably shouldn’t, but then, further to that, as dads, wow it just. It gets really, really different, and that becomes obvious in some of our conversations.
0:02:59 – Speaker 3
Well, and that’s a good lead-in into why we’re doing this show. I work with a lot of moms, online groups, you know, talking with them one-on-one, going to events, that kind of thing And one of the things that I hear over and over again is this I’m ready, i’m sold, i’m bought into the nextTalk idea, and I want to create this new culture of conversation in our home. No topic is going to be off limits. I’m in, i’m digging in, i’m jumping in. The problem is, when I talk to my husband about it, he’s not. So what do I do with that?
0:03:36 – Speaker 4
Yeah, this sounds just like you and me a few years ago. I mean almost like, almost exactly like you and me a few years ago And, quite honestly, sometimes still like you and I. we mentioned how different we are. I can’t say that I’ve talked to a single dad that’s ever emailed me or called me or anything and said that’s it, i’m in 100%, i’m ready to get this thing going. I again. I think we’re very different, i think. But I have heard from dads talk to dads, know that you’re involved in this and you know, reach out to me and it’s a. I think most of the approach that the dad brings is that of anger, frustration, maybe some fear and maybe really wanting to just figure out what in the world’s going on out there with their kids and what can they do to fix it. We want to fix it.
0:04:33 – Speaker 3
You know it’s funny when moms say that to me. I immediately come back with well, that’s me and my husband He was not on board at first And I kind of share our story about how we got to where we are today. And I think that’s what I want to do with this show, because I think it may help some moms and dads out there who may be on opposite sides of the pages. First of all, i remember when I first came to you and told you and for those of you who know our story, just a short summary our daughter was exposed to pornography in the fourth grade. No phones were present, but she was described a scenario in detail.
That led me on a path to try and figure out What are we missing as parents? because we didn’t give her a phone and we thought she was safe from all the online stuff and It was kind of like our light bulb wake-up moment That that really didn’t keep her safe. So we had to find another solution. We started trying all these things. One was moved to a remote island. Do you remember that conversation, honey?
0:05:41 – Speaker 4
I do. I remember that conversation Well, and I think it’s also important to point out that this was our oldest child, and so You know this is I remember. Whenever she was born, i was waiting for the instruction manual to come with her On the delivery table, which that didn’t happen, and even now, as we deal with this New world, we’re still looking for that instruction manual. A couple years ago, and you know, you started nextTalk and really what we found is a Great opportunity to kind of charter the course to solutions.
0:06:17 – Speaker 3
Well, and we tried so much trial and error on what the solution was to all of this. You know they’re overexposed, they’re getting all this information, adult information, faster than ever before, and so what do we do with that? All of you who have followed nextTalk or know you know, one day I was reading scripture and God pointed me to Deuteronomy 6, 6 and 7, and I love that scripture Because it says teach your kids these commands that I’m giving you talk when you’re on the go, when you’re at home, when you’re getting up and when you’re going to bed so four key times to talk. And when I read that, i just was overcome with emotion because when it said like talk on the go, i Had learned through trial and error that my kids did love to talk in the car Because they didn’t have to look at me directly in the eye. So when I was running one of them to practice and we were alone, that was always prime talk time and I had captured that where they could ask me weird questions or whatever. And it worked out great for me because I could be looking ahead and sweating profusely and put on my brave face, even though I was not being very brave.
You know, what I saw from that scripture was just a beautiful Idea of oh my gosh, we need to be talking about everything, create a culture of conversation Where nothing is off limits. You know, i phrase it as open communication, but it’s a healthy dialogue between parent and child. Trying to do that has been really hard and when I saw that scripture I like committed myself to it, like I’m gonna do this every day, i’m gonna pray, i’m gonna look for teachable moments. But I remember when I went to you and And I said, okay, you know, every night we would be talking about different types of solutions. Well, maybe there’s an app that will mirror their phone, maybe there’s this, maybe there. I mean, we would be talking through different types of solutions. And When I brought you this solution, you weren’t as excited about it as I was and I was a little deflated because of it.
0:08:28 – Speaker 4
Yeah, i wasn’t as excited And, to be honest with you, i’m still not as excited because I don’t love to talk. I don’t. The difference is in the past seven, eight years, since this was, since you started this I’ve recognized the value of why it is that I need to to focus on this, why it is that I need to put forth the effort, and again, it does look different for me and our kids versus you and our kids. It’s not easy and it’s not natural for me to want to talk about things that are really uncomfortable with our kids when my natural reflex or my natural response is just to say no, because I’m a protector. I like a protector provider.
Dad, right, i’ve always wanted to just protect the kids. What I’ve learned is the best form of protection is actually being proactive and getting there before they experience all of these things and making sure that they know that under any circumstance, i’m there for them and I’ve become a safe place Again. Sometimes that, from a dad perspective, might not happen with a whole lot of mouth flapping, not a whole lot of talking, but what it does mean is very critical moments of confidence and support, just really being flexible and being willing to kind of see where these things go, where the kids really want the type of conversations they want to have. Again, many of these things, these conversations, are just not conversations that I really like, and I know on your side as well, mandy, a lot of the conversations that they bring up. Oh my gosh, you don’t want to have these conversations, you know, you just sweat and you freak out.
No, i don’t want to talk about. I think the point here is that, although you and I have a very different approach in terms of how we actually communicate with our kids, very different styles, and call it what you want Maybe it is gender differences or personality types The reality is, i think both of us are equally bought in and agree that we’re going to do whatever hard work we have to do to set the stage and create an environment where anything is on the table for discussion. And, again, it just takes a lot of hard work And sometimes you’ve got to run into the fire, not run away from it.
0:10:59 – Speaker 3
So I love what you just said there, because our listeners can see that you’re on board now, but I think they may be wondering how did you get here? And that’s kind of what I want to walk them through how we got here over the last seven to nine years. One of the things is I remember distinctly when I came to you and said this is the solution. We have to talk about everything. I don’t know if you remember your response to me. I think it was no, wasn’t it? Well, it was no, but it was also this Do you remember saying this to me? You said I don’t like that kumbaya crap, i’m not going to talk and talk and talk about all my feelings.
Do you remember saying that?
0:11:43 – Speaker 4
I may have said something.
0:11:44 – Speaker 3
You totally said that.
0:11:46 – Speaker 4
Usually I like it to be either yes or no, but maybe I might have added a little bit of use.
0:11:54 – Speaker 3
You said you and your friends can sit around and talk about your feelings for hours and hours and hours. I’m not going to do that because in your mind, that’s what I was saying when I said talk and that’s not really what I was saying. What I was saying was it’s a 10 minute conversation here, a five minute conversation here. It’s addressing their questions when they have them. It’s becoming their Google, so that we’re the safe place and they’re not getting answers online.
0:12:20 – Speaker 4
Yeah, you know, for us, for me.
0:12:22 – Speaker 3
But I didn’t define it for you. No, no, but we got to talk about everything.
0:12:26 – Speaker 4
It’s okay because you know I would again. It looks so different. So maybe you would define talking this. You know, again, lots and lots and lots of lots of talking and maybe there’s I don’t know maybe there’s hugs involved. For me it’s pretty simple. It doesn’t take a lot of time. Sometimes there’s zero talking on my part, sometimes it’s all listening. My kids need to see that I’m willing to listen to anything If I, if I respond and the way I want to respond and they’re, it’s it, they’re done, they’re going somewhere else And that’s really the biggest thing. So, yes, it’s talking, it’s communicating, it’s creating this culture of open communication, But for me it’s not as much moving my mouth. It’s really in the way that I respond and how I show interest and that I care about what they’re talking about, even if sometimes I don’t understand it.
0:13:24 – Speaker 3
Well, one of the things you’ve taught me on the journey is communicating doesn’t have to be talking So it can be connecting. It could be playing basketball together, It could be doing an activity. You’re still connecting with your kid and communicating with them in certain ways. You know that you love them, that you’re there for them, that you want to spend time for them, but you’re not saying it.
0:13:45 – Speaker 4
Yeah, I mean well, great example of that Lots of lots of dads like to take their daughters and sons hunting or fishing or playing basketball or you know whatever right And just the just not being like being a dad. that’s not a know-it-all right, Being a dad that, even though your son or daughter may be eight or 10 or 12 years old, you don’t have to know it all. You can, you can do more by listening to what’s going on in their world And you create an opportunity where that kid knows they are safe and to tell you anything. And again, it’s the small stuff before it becomes the big stuff. and the big challenges with our kids are coming quicker and larger than ever before. Absolutely.
0:14:30 – Speaker 3
So one of the things that I want to say to the ladies is, I think, part of the reason why we got here when I first started and I wanted to talk about everything. One of the things that I did wrong, that I had to shift my approach was we would pray with our kids at night, we would tuck them in and then Matt and I would crawl into bed and then I would be like honey, you know, tomorrow you need to cover this, this and this with our son.
0:14:54 – Speaker 4
Yeah, actually, usually when you, while you were talking, i would be falling asleep. Yes, Okay.
0:14:59 – Speaker 3
So a couple of things that did not work And what I want to say and this is hard to hear for for moms, but I’m going to say it because I had somebody say it to me and it helped me You cannot nag your husband into conversations with your kids. You cannot. You cannot. The key here is you have to let your husband find their own rhythm with this. You have to let your husband have their own light bulb moments.
So I shifted when I realized that was absolutely not working at all, because what happened was Matt didn’t do it. And then I got frustrated with Matt and then we were, you know, arguing about why aren’t you helping me with this? Talk to him about this, this and this, and it was just more of a forced relationship, versus me just stepping back and saying he’s got this in his own way, he’ll have this. So instead, what I did was I started giving Matt statistics or I would repeat questions. So I wouldn’t tell Matt what to say or when to say it, but I would say Hey, is it a good time? I need to tell you what this kid asked me on the way home from school, or I need to just let you know that one of our kids friends got in trouble at school for doing this. Can you believe this? already online They’re doing this And by giving him just the information, then I would let him process it and he could figure out what he wanted to do with that information.
But I learned really quickly It wasn’t about telling him what to do, but just equipping him with what I was seeing on the front lines, because in our home I spend the majority of the time in the car with the kids. When we’re talking the most the one on one. I’m running them everywhere, so I feel like sometimes I’m getting more than Matt may be getting. So I felt it like it was my duty to just inform him of what was happening, but not tell him what to do with it.
0:17:00 – Speaker 4
I think that there’s a very clear biological reason that parenting is a team sport. There are things that you’re really good at that I’m not, and vice versa. Right, and when we play to our strengths, that we can be the best possible parents. And so, yeah, the nagging thing was not good. I think you stopped nagging, not as much when maybe it was when you realized it wasn’t working, but I think really, you stopped nagging the quickest when I started listening the most to you And I think when you realize that, okay, look, i get it, i’m listening, it’s important to me. I just don’t know what I’m doing here And again when you say, well, you know what about that? We kind of, we kind of put together a plan as to how we would talk to which of our kids is a certain way, real simple, just again aligned to our natural interests, our personalities and our approaches. And then there was no, there was no nagging, it was an understanding. Okay, you got this, i got that.
0:18:05 – Speaker 3
Well, it became a learning together kind of situation And I think that is where we really started to come together and understand. But also I remember very clearly one morning and this was after talk had come out, my first book, and we were still trying to find our rhythm here as a family. But I remember distinctly I had a meeting downtown and I needed you to take the kids to school that morning And typically that would be my role to do because you have a long commute, but I needed you to go in a little late, take the kids to school, because I had to be downtown at an important meeting And I remember you having 10 minutes in the car with them. You know, and I distinctly, i was walking into this quiet building and you never get worked up about anything, as you can tell on this show he’s very even Keel, he doesn’t really raise his voice a lot. And you called me and I’m walking into this quiet office space And you’re at an elevated tone saying Oh my gosh, it works. And I was like What are you talking about? Like I am in this meeting, like I’m walking in here, and you were like 10 minutes in the car, that’s all it took. And we covered masturbation and pornography, And you blurted out these big words and I read this quiet area and I’m like, oh my gosh, who heard that? you know, and in the moment I was just embarrassed and focused on the meeting.
But afterwards I remember walking out thinking he had a moment like I had. He saw the value in it for wives. I just, i just want to reiterate to you they need to see the value for themselves and give them space to do that. Don’t force it on your husbands, because that is just going to end in fighting. We’ve been there.
It ended in us fighting because I was mad at Matt that he wasn’t saying the conversations like I wanted, and he was mad for you know me trying to just tell him what to do. Like I got this, i can figure it out, and so it’s so, so important to let your husbands have their own moment where they recognize the value. And I think ever since then I’ve been completely amazed at the things you’re willing to talk with our kids about, like sometimes I walk in the living room and you and our teen daughter are having conversations that I am just like who is this person? My husband nine years ago? there’s no way you ever even would have said that word, let alone have a full conversation with our kid about it.
0:20:50 – Speaker 4
Well, ideally, if I had it my way, we still wouldn’t have the conversations, But unfortunately she’s been having these conversations since fourth, fifth grade, because that’s just kind of society now And you know this overwhelming social media presence with their phones. I mean, you can take the phones and the technology away, but society is evolving at a clip and at a rate and in a direction that I’m not a huge fan of, and I think there’s a number of people who share that opinion. So I don’t think I’m alone there. But you know, i just look at the voices that are out there that could shape our kids minds on all these social media platforms And it’s going to be either me or them.
If I just don’t, if I just get irritated and just throw my hands up and say I just can’t do this, this is too uncomfortable, then it’s going to be them.
They are going to get the voice. They are going to really create that foundational viewpoint in my kids minds And it really doesn’t take long with as much against social media, as much messaging and as much voice that’s coming in their minds, whether it’s in school or whether it’s from their phone or YouTube or whatever the case. Again, i just am not willing to lay down and let those other voices be the loudest voice in their mind And I just I’ll fight for it, i’ll fight for it and I’ll do uncomfortable things. But you’re right, i think that moment where I think that was kind of the moment for me where I realized it’s not just that, i realized that it works Okay, it wasn’t just that I realized it works. I knew it worked because I saw it working in you When you started nextTalk and wrote these books, i saw it working I think it was more a matter of it works And I can do it too.
0:22:39 – Speaker 3
I love that We’ve never really talked about that until right now, but I think you’re right. I think you’re exactly right. You saw that I was good at having these conversations with our kids and that may have been a little intimidating to you, like, can I do it as well as she does?
0:22:55 – Speaker 4
0:22:55 – Speaker 3
Because you’re not a talker.
0:22:57 – Speaker 4
No, no, and I’m more of an introvert in a traditional sense. I don’t get fuel from conversations and being around lots of people. I get more fuel from being alone And kind of resting. And so you take a traditional, more introvert Person or personality type and then you mix it in with a lot of these, really these conversations And these topics that I mean. I’m not a social media, i don’t get on social media much So I’m, you know, might as well be a hundred and fifty years old, and these I mean again way outside of my comfort zone. Just about every moment of the past Eight, nine years I have been forced outside of my comfort zone, but it’s worth it for my kids. I only get one shot.
0:23:40 – Speaker 3
So we got a kid leaving for college in a couple months. Here looking back on it all, are you glad you took the leap of faith? Are you glad you Didn’t shut me down? you like you listen to me and I appreciate you saying that earlier. You know, because I’m kind of being kind of hard on the moms here saying don’t nag your husbands, but I think what you’re saying is you know husbands, you got to also listen to your wives and I appreciate that. You did hear me. You saw how it was changing me and our kids and You didn’t let that go in my world.
0:24:13 – Speaker 4
I love to get accomplishments, i love to make money, i love you know, i Love kind of that standard kind of testosterone driven success, achieve you know thing. Again, i’m kind of I’m a dude right, and so I can tell you that there’s not a single thing I would have done differently. As I look back and reflect on raising our oldest any either of our children, really, at this point There’s literally nothing I would have traded for it. I I’m so appreciative that that we’ve done, did the difficult things got out of my comfort zone, that we did it together. I learned from you and you learned from me.
Again, we did this parenting as a team sport approach. We sacrificed but honestly made some sacrificial decisions to kind of not go with the flow when it would have been easier. And I really feel like I feel like I left it all on the field. I mean I literally she’s gonna be going off to college and there’s nothing else I could have done better. There’s no additional energy I could have poured into this. I although Yes, we’ve made mistakes, but you know it’s I really feel at this point she’s 18 and She can call me. She can at any time, she can tell me anything, even though she knows by now what I will and will not like. But she can tell me anything, she can do Anything and I will always be there to love her and I will always accept her. I may not accept some of her decisions but again, we will always have. We will always have this relationship and the same with my son, because of the early decisions that we made to be a next-talk family.
0:25:56 – Speaker 3
It’s crazy too. We look back now and say, man, our kid being exposed to porn in the fourth grade Was literally one of the best things that ever happened to us.
0:26:05 – Speaker 4
It’s kind of weird when you say it like that.
0:26:07 – Speaker 3
It’s really weird, but you know, i always think of that Bible verse. It’s in Deuteronomy and it says you know, god turns the intended curse into a blessing. And and that’s what I think happened here. And I want to encourage any parents out there. You know, you’ve just found porn on your kids phone, you’ve just found something and you’re trying to think, okay, what do I need to do next? and I want to become a next-talk family, and we’re not. I want to give you a little hope That maybe this is the best thing that will ever happen to you, because it’ll be a wake-up call for your family. I mean, i just cannot even imagine where we would be without this, without God moving in us With this verse to really change everything about our home culture.
0:26:50 – Speaker 4
I don’t know where we would be. It’s really quite simple but not easy, and it’s based 100% in biblical truths and direction that God gave us in the Bible, and it’s pretty amazing again to be able to see time and time again how really read God’s Word and do what it says. It’s good for you.
0:27:15 – Speaker 3
Amen, all right. Well, thanks for being with us today, honey. I appreciate it For all of you listeners out there. I’m sorry for my voice and I’m sorry if it’s hard to listen. Thanks for hanging with us And we pray that our story helps you If you’re not on the same page. Work together. You got to learn to listen to each other, you got to learn not to nag each other, and you’ll get there. It is a process, but now I feel like we’ve got it down. Man, it’s like a tag team. It takes two minutes behind a closed door and I’ll be like okay, i’m covering this, you’re covering it. Okay, go, we’ve got it.
0:27:52 – Speaker 4
Yeah, we like high five coming in off the ropes and we’ll high five and one jump in a hole in your head, yeah.
0:27:59 – Speaker 3
Yeah, sometimes we’ll just call each other and be like man, i had this conversation Isn’t this awesome With one of the kids, or whatever. It has taken a lot of hard work. It has taken a lot of hard work, and not only with our kids, but with each other, learning to communicate better with each other, understand each other and just have patience with one another. We don’t always get it right And one of us messes up, or we may say the wrong thing, or now we’ve learned to piggyback each other and I’ll say, oh, i forgot to say this. And then Matt will be like okay, the next time we’re talking about it, i’ll jump in and add that We’ll talk through things like that now, and so it’s definitely more of a team effort. And, man, i appreciate your willingness, honey, not to think I was a crazy lady when I came to you and said we’re going to talk about everything.
0:28:45 – Speaker 4
Oh no, i actually did think you were crazy.
0:28:48 – Speaker 3
Well, I appreciate that you loved me enough that you gave it a shot.
0:28:51 – Speaker 4
And I’m glad we both did the hard work.
0:28:53 – Speaker 3
Thanks for tuning in, guys. We hope this show helps you.
Transcribed by https://podium.page