0:00:00 – Speaker 1
nextTalk contains content of a mature nature. Parental guidance is advised.
0:00:30 – Speaker 2
Are you ready for the nextTalk?
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David Youngdale. I am a proud father of two kids one’s 20 and one’s almost 18. I’ve been living in San Antonio since about 2000. As far as this topic goes, I’ve been divorced 12 years now. I’ve been a single parent for those 12 years.
0:01:25 – Speaker 3
David and I met years ago at church camp. We were both counselors. He was counseling young teen boys. I had young teen girls. I remember he just had a real heart for the teenagers, but then also for marriages. I remember talking to him and getting to know him and then seeing him do ministry at our church together. I’m really excited to have him on the show today.
0:01:49 – Speaker 1
Absolutely the title. That’s not something we came up with. Tell us a little bit about that title.
0:01:55 – Speaker 4
The genesis of that is I wrote it about two to three years after I was officially divorced. For just very generic topics. I know divorce situations vary. Our listeners understand I’m talking about a situation where the marriage broke down but there was never any abuse. There was never anything of dangerous nature. It was just, unfortunately, the falling apart of a couple that had children. It was nothing I ever wanted. I grieved deeply. I went through counseling.
I started to write down one day and I’ll be honest, I can’t remember what started it. But once I started to write it it was somewhat therapeutic. It wasn’t meant as a rant, but it was an acknowledgement of the new reality laid before me because of my divorce. I mean the new reality mostly pertaining to my two children what life was like now? Kind of permanently, kind of this is the genesis of when someone decides to divorce. This is what you’re going to encounter.
I kept adding to it as just life moved on. I even had a couple of friends add to it and it just went from 10 to 20 to 30. I think I got up to like 63 at something like that. The neat thing is I’ve drawn on that. When I meet with somebody who’s, as you said contemplating divorce, I go okay, let me hear your heart, let me hear your circumstances. Now let’s talk about what you think the future holds for you. And I’ve had an opportunity in one particular case. I handed it to a gal who was considering it and after reading it it really hit her because it offered up a perspective she had never thought of and she realized that’s not the ending I’m looking for.
And so she saw divorce again as a solution, but no longer for the solution. I mean, she looked for a different solution, ie she recommitted or whatever. But the point is, her husband is still working at it.
0:03:43 – Speaker 1
Well, you said something really profound when we were talking before the show about exchange, and I’d love for you to explain that, because I think that really puts things into perspective for people.
0:03:53 – Speaker 4
And I will say this having gone through divorce and seeing tough times in marriages when people are contemplating it, the first thing I try to. I guess the first point I want to make is I hear your pain, I hear your frustration and I hear your circumstances that are causing all this. Because we all know marriage is very difficult A lot of times. At times it’s challenging. It takes the best of us to make it work well. So the first thing is I listen to that. But then I want to know okay, so you’re thinking divorce is your solution.
Okay, tell me about what that looks like once you’re divorced. How are your problems solved? And sometimes they may be truthful, like, yeah, and I will agree with them. Yes, that trouble will be gone. But guess what? Let me show you a list of all the new troubles you’re gonna have in your life. And if you look at it from that perspective, I tell them straight up you will solve some of your problems, you will get rid of those troubles, but you’re just exchanging them for new ones. And I also make sure I say that in the context, because if you have children and this is generally what we’re speaking about and you love your kids, you’ll be still parenting, co-parenting with that former spouse. You will still be engaging on a maybe day-to-day, week-to-week basis If you love your kids and you want to give them your best. It will involve you working with another individual and that’s gonna, of course, as you can even imagine, bring up all kinds of new challenges that weren’t there. So, yes, you exchange them, I believe.
0:05:19 – Speaker 3
I had a mom once tell me she had gone through a divorce and she had kids with this person, and I remember her saying to me you know her new husband. They had to go to counseling and work through things.
And she’s like if I realized how hard this was, maybe I should have just put the effort into my marriage. You know my original marriage and it spoke volumes to me because I think that you hit on it. You’ve put it into words exactly what she was trying to say to me she traded different problems for a whole new set.
0:05:50 – Speaker 4
That exchange and I think it’s okay. I can give grace on this because I’m human too. When I see a problem, I just want it to go away, I just want to right. I want the path of least resistance. We all do, and so I understand that moment they just go. I just want to start over with a new person. Yeah.
0:06:05 – Speaker 3
I want a fresh slate. I want a fresh slate, exactly. The grass is greener on the other side and all the things and we’ve heard that expression.
0:06:12 – Speaker 4
Well then, water your own grass, then it’s bad green, right, we’ve heard them all. But so again, I’m very empathetic, I get it, but it’s important that we then redefine again I talk about. So you see divorce as your solution, can we think of some other solutions? And that’s it’s very much a I try to do as much as I can of a rational discussion on it, but I know it’s a very emotional topic.
0:06:34 – Speaker 1
Well, it’s great to hear from a dad perspective, someone who’s walked through this, because we don’t hear that perspective a lot. I bet you rarely meet someone who’s willing to talk about it. That’s another dude.
0:06:45 – Speaker 4
Yes, there’s very few of us. I don’t.
0:06:48 – Speaker 3
We don’t want to be stereotypical, but I mean, it’s what it is, I have no problem with that, I can find a woman at an university street corner.
0:06:55 – Speaker 2
Who’s willing to talk about a?
0:06:56 – Speaker 4
relationship and about this. But I find that I find that the genders have that commonality. Still, if they’re unhappy, they’re unhappy and they just want to move on and find happiness quickly. We’re human, we want to love and we want to be loved. It’s not working and it just seems too hard to make it happen. Or they, more importantly, lose hope. If they lose hope that’s the real issue Then they’re just, they’re already gone. They move on. How they do it, I’ve discovered observed very different, but the core reason is they essentially want the problems to go away and they’ve lost hope in them solving it themselves.
0:07:29 – Speaker 1
So one of the things that you mentioned is parenting and when you go, Mandy and I both come from divorced families and so we know it’s like on that kid’s side of a divorce and that’s really big part of your ministry and your heart is helping parents understand the kid perspective and what that looks like for their role moving forward through divorce and in the years to come. And you had some really great reflections on your piece. It kind of makes me think of a journal, like you were journaling through your process, and one of the things that really stood out to me is nobody wins when you try to be the good guy and I think that’s our natural inclination, Like we want to be the winner in this, in a divorce or in any situation.
0:08:08 – Speaker 4
Yeah, let’s hit on that and with practical kind of an application, let’s just say the divorce has just happened and there’s a still rawness to it. So until that really ultimate healing and that’s a separate topic but until that ultimate healing happens on the individual, we’re human, we’re around those we love ie our kids and we are going to, almost subconsciously or instinctively, defend ourselves, lift ourselves up, show the best of ourselves, because the kids will obviously know that their divorce has happened and everybody from friends, kids, families, you name it we default to wanting to know whose fault it was. Why did this happen?
And the way who’s to blame and we like well, and if it was a definitive like I didn’t file and I didn’t do this, or I did do this, I mean, if it’s a really egregious, then you’re really trying to show the other person to this horrible person and see if it wasn’t for them. Okay, you get the point. There’s a lot of again seeking blame and the problem is the kids believe it or not. At least if they’re young, they don’t really need to hear all of this. They really don’t. What they need to know is where am I moving forward?
0:09:17 – Speaker 1
Yeah.
0:09:18 – Speaker 4
I mean, where am I in my mom and dad’s life, whereas we’ve got I’ve got these two lives. Now I have to jump back and forth between. And this is where I say in practical terms don’t worry so much about their image of you, don’t worry so much about them being aware of details, even if they’re under 18, still too young to really address it, and that’s another topic. But I would say in general, just focus on doing what you believe and in the moment, if it’s just trying to provide the best safe, loving environment with rules and boundaries and all the things that you want to have in place just to raise a young child to a healthy adulthood, then do that. Don’t do it in reference to the other spouse. Don’t do it in reference to the things that may or may not be happening, the good or the bad. You control what you can control, and that is you and your house and your children when they’re in your house or apartment or whatever that may be.
0:10:08 – Speaker 3
What happens with competition? Is competition a thing?
Because you want your kid to choose to want to be with you, right, I mean? And so I feel like you’re already in this place of bitterness and emotional turmoil with your ex, your ex and now, all of a sudden, you’re like I want the kids to choose me, I want the kids to be with me more, I want to be the fun one. So talk to us about that. I get at events, I get asked a lot. I’m trying to put up technology guidelines, but they go to the other parent’s house and it’s like take your phone in your bedroom all night because I want to be the cool parent.
0:10:46 – Speaker 4
I was hoping you wouldn’t ask me that question. You know what.
0:10:48 – Speaker 3
It’s okay if you don’t have an answer for that.
0:10:50 – Speaker 4
No, I have an answer. I’ll have the answer.
0:10:52 – Speaker 3
I always say, you know, it depends on the situation and I think it’s a conversation with the other parent, but it’s hard for me to speak into because I haven’t walked through that and I know that a lot of people who are listening may have that question because I’ve been asked it a lot. So tell us what you think there.
0:11:08 – Speaker 4
Here is. I think I’ve kind of already answered it, but let me answer it a different way. Control what?
you can control, and just like you don’t have control over them when they’re at school, it’s unfortunately the same thing. It just may be at mom’s house or dad’s house. So don’t as you say. Here’s our life, moving forward, meaning our rules, our values. This is how we’re going to conduct our lives from a schedule perspective, from dinner, you know all the things as you move forward. Doing that, just be about doing that, Not well, I don’t care what your dad or mom does, or you know, don’t always make it about either, or yeah.
This is our world, is what we do, and then it’s because that’s and I hate to say this, but it still is it’s important, it’s all you can control. Yeah, yeah, it’s all you can control.
0:11:57 – Speaker 3
Well, in a perfect scenario, you have two adults setting down and saying let’s come to an agreement here for the sake of our kids. But a lot of times you don’t have that.
0:12:04 – Speaker 4
You don’t, but all I can encourage is it’s still possible. Okay, I think there’s a couple of things you can do. First of all, realize this journey happens faster, the sooner you heal, and definitively. What does healing look like? It’s forgiveness Forgiveness for yourself and for the other, and I get it Every. There’s a reason why you’re divorced. There are probably some very bad things that have possibly happened, but I will also walk into this. I would tell our listeners I believe this and is as much as within your capability and your abilities. Promote it, and that is simply this the children benefit most when they have a healthy, safe, affirming, loving relationship with both parents.
0:12:48 – Speaker 1
Yes.
0:12:49 – Speaker 4
You may be split, you may no longer be a couple, but that child is half you and half your former spouse. If you notice, here’s the first thing I try to never say the word X. Yeah, it’s a harsh word, it’s a negative, it’s a definitive word, but it’s only in relation to you and your former spouse. Instead, it might be well that’s little Susie’s dad or that’s Tommy’s mother. If you start to reference that person through your child’s name, that’s a place of love that you have for your child.
0:13:17 – Speaker 3
That starts the journey of softening what you’re saying about them, well, and it’s a connection that you’re always going to have with them. And there you go. I love that You’re a family. Yeah, I believe always.
0:13:25 – Speaker 4
Always.
0:13:26 – Speaker 2
Yeah.
0:13:26 – Speaker 4
Yeah, there’s a divorce decree possibly, that says you’re no longer legally married.
0:13:30 – Speaker 1
That’s about the old, but you’re connected. But you’re connected Through those kids.
0:13:34 – Speaker 4
Through weddings and graduations and birthday parties and everything else. So if you because I know a lot of people that try to just shut out that other person because they’re so hurt, and I get it, it’s painful, it’s painful, but that’s really wasted time. It’s never going to come to fruition.
0:13:50 – Speaker 1
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0:14:11 – Speaker 2
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0:14:40 – Speaker 3
We have David Youngdale in the studio today. He is a single dad who walked through a divorce 12 years ago, successfully raised two kids that are doing pretty good. I’m working on it. I just love that. He’s giving us some advice, like things we don’t think about. On divorce, we said this in the first segment, but I want to say it again. We are not talking about an abusive situation. We are talking about a healthy relationship. Obviously there’s going to be issues if you’re contemplating divorce. So there may be pornography addiction, there may be lust or whatever going on. But we’re not talking about abuse situations. We’re just talking about your typical kind of marriage.
0:15:19 – Speaker 4
Yes, if there’s such a thing as a typical yeah, I know right, how do you define that? You can, but not we’re generally speaking, but maybe I should just say non-abuse marriages.
0:15:28 – Speaker 1
Yes, yes.
So about, yes, what that means as a man and a woman, but also the implications for your kids and how to set up these new norms in your life and to do the best you can, moving forward in a healthy way.
And I wanted to run something by you based on some things that you said that I know. Coming from a divorced family, manny and I both I always tell my mom one of the greatest gifts she ever gave is she never talked down about my dad and thinking about one of the things that we can do is not focus on the now but the future fruit. And in the moment you probably want to say that, jerk and all the things. Here’s all the reasons why he laughed and why I left him or whatever, and in that moment there’s not a lot of return in saying nice things, but I figured out the things that happened on my own and she didn’t have to tell me those things and I could process it at an older age when I could understand it, and I feel like that’s one of the best things that she could have ever done.
0:16:23 – Speaker 4
My kids were first and third grade when this happened. We’re now in college and almost college and I will say from experience oh easily by middle school, high school at the latest, kids figure their parents out.
0:16:34 – Speaker 1
Yes, we don’t have to tell them all the things.
0:16:38 – Speaker 4
So I would not only raise the bar from don’t talk bad about and will you fail at times. Yes, just, you’re human. You’re going to say something out of frustration. Again, grace, forgive yourself, move on, keep fighting the good fight. But I’d say, move beyond that. Champion, and it makes sense champion. Here’s an example.
I’m a firm believer in the book from the five love languages and there were moments where I know my kid’s mom was using her love language to do something. But they’re different from my children and one of my children was very frustrated about it and I went whoa time out. I go, that was a cool thing that mom did. I mean, she really, you know, and I kind of just went on and on. I go I know you’re not seeing it, but let me tell you that was. I know what she was doing there. That was a really good thing that she did.
And then and then you teach your kids that applies just in life. You may have a neighbor or a friend or a roommate right how we receive and give love. So that was a great segue into another topic. So champion it right. And then little things I was taught over the years is you’ve got this divorce decree Great, now chuck it in a drawer and never pull it out, meaning you got a new reality.
But talk like civil adults if you can, and work things out together. So it’s not so this hard and fast. Well, I’m supposed to have the kids at three o’clock and you want to keep until four? No way, work together and the kids will pick up on that. They will see that cooperation. And then after and as I said earlier, it’s important Don’t make it all about well, your, your father, lets you do this, well, we’re gonna do it this way at this house again. Just talk about what you’re doing at your house, because now the kids are seeing everything in relation to oh well, mom does this way, dad does it this way, so they’re losing sight of what’s really important, and that is the topic at hand. It’s all about what mom and dad believe, because half the time they’re going Well, who’s right? And then the kids kind of get more bogged down with that.
0:18:24 – Speaker 3
I remember talking to you one time and you said something just real practical that I had never thought about before and you were like Sharing them on holidays is horrible and I see that on Facebook all the time like parents saying oh, I don’t get to spend Thanksgiving and I don’t get to spend Christmas because now we’re separate. But I never really thought about it until we started talking about it and I’m like that is such a practical thing that I think we don’t think about. We just are so excited to start over that. Really right, are you laughing?
0:18:54 – Speaker 4
No, no, this is, this is what we do. We just we, as humans we go through a bad breakup. It’s no different than high school, right? We just have kids now and we’re a little older and anyways, they say kids are resilient, they’ll bounce back.
0:19:06 – Speaker 1
No, no, they don’t. Yeah, that’s a whole nother discussion, yes it is.
0:19:10 – Speaker 4
Let me say this yeah, if you never think about it, you have a choice. On holidays you can look at who’s turned it is to have the kids and then, if you don’t have the kids, or if you establish that respect and co-parenting role and and admiration, maybe you just show up for a little bit, but you least you’re there and I’ve done that and and I will give total credit to my kids, mom’s family. They never stop loving me. That’s awesome. I’ve been. In fact it’s been 25 years, I think. I’ve made almost every Christmas and Thanksgiving.
Oh, when I’m around right they know that I’m my kids dad and they love their grandkids and niece, right? Does that make sense? Yeah?
0:19:45 – Speaker 1
Yeah, you’re still.
0:19:46 – Speaker 4
I think that’s so far that family so for the holiday’s sake, for that Christmas day or whatever you can put those different side.
0:19:52 – Speaker 3
It’s hard, it’s awkward, yeah, but I’m with my kids and I think also there it’s easier for them to love you. I mean, I don’t know your specific situation, but I see you being a great dad and being very involved in it, all the activities, and cheering your kids on, like I see that from the outside and so I would think once you’re doing that part whether it’s mom or dad it’s easier for the in-laws to champion that because you’ve stepped into that role and you’re like okay, we got a divorce, but I’m still their dad, we’re still a family, we’re still connected.
0:20:20 – Speaker 4
We’re still family. And so this all comes back to the original question the kids. What’s the expression? More is caught than taught. Truly, yeah, that’s maybe the best lesson. Moving forward is your new reality is not the one you planned on, perhaps, but the reality is what you can control as far as a day-to-day thing.
0:20:35 – Speaker 3
So so keep doing that practical things, like Midweek transitions, like what are just some practical things that you could give single parents out there that are like this helped me.
0:20:45 – Speaker 4
Okay, parents, whatever your visitation schedule is for the custodial or non-custodial parent or maybe it’s ours is different. We divided the weeks. I was never that standard, at least when we got divorced. I wasn’t the every other weekend, 30 days in the summer kind of guy. I was literally half the week. So it was so our kids, every Sunday and Wednesday, had to change locations. They had to keep that up for 12 years. So, first thing, parents, give your kids grace. Imagine you right now, twice a week going over to your best friend’s house switching houses, even if the house is safe and loving.
Yeah, that’s different.
0:21:18 – Speaker 1
Yeah, it’s hard and different expectations, different, different rules.
0:21:22 – Speaker 4
Yeah, that’s okay, so Right now that we stop and pause go.
Oh my gosh, yeah, it’s a grind. So what I’ve learned is we my counselor called that the transition. He just defined it. As he goes that’s sometimes the number one most challenging moment of any divorce situation. So and I noticed it I’d watch, I’d pick up the kids, they get in the car and that first hour, oh my gosh, they were talk to the talk or they were hyper, they were just. They weren’t themselves and I could see it and they were just. And all I can say in my layman’s terms is they were just trying to get their awkwardness out or their craziness out, or they just were. They were trying to process this change and I learned to not engage on any real meaningful conversation. I kind of just let them get it out of their system. And then, a couple hours later, I had to look at them and I kind of just you know, your kids, they go, okay, they’re settled.
0:22:12 – Speaker 1
They’ve adjusted.
0:22:13 – Speaker 4
They made the transition. So I never disciplined well, maybe you never, almost never. I never lectured, I never talked anything meaningful, I just let that first hour happen. Respect that transition parents.
0:22:24 – Speaker 3
I think that’s very wise. Again, that’s going into know your kid.
0:22:27 – Speaker 4
Know your kids.
0:22:27 – Speaker 3
And if they’re of this nervous anxiety, then give them that grace. That’s for the minute, Because they’re transitioning. I love that. What about, like, when you start dating again or your kid’s mom or dad starts dating? Like what? How is that?
0:22:42 – Speaker 4
I experienced that she remarried a couple of years later and I watched my kids struggle with where they felt they were on the priority list, sure. So my encouragement and all that is I will never tell anybody how to have a relationship, except keep the kids in mind the whole time. They may see that person as competition for your affection and love. They may be very angry Okay, not saying they can’t work through it, but just know that you are now a vis.
This person is a possible visible reminder that their parents are never getting back together. And then you may be with the nicest person, the most kindest, sweetest. This could be the greatest step parent ever made. Doesn’t change how your kids may initially receive it. So be mindful, I would say, until you know for sure that this is a solid relationship that’s really going to be deep and committed and quite possibly marriage. I would delay that as long as you think you can before you introduce the kids into that, just to avoid the whole revolving door of relationships as you’re trying to date and get to know people. The kids will struggle with that.
0:23:41 – Speaker 1
Do you feel like priorities made a change?
0:23:44 – Speaker 4
Well, this is the big one. If my faith tells me that the best way to approach any marriage is God first, the marriage second, the kids third, and if you flow your priorities and your outlook through that, it’s going to solve most of your challenges. The problem is the kids come into the relationship first, because the kids are already there, and then the marriage comes in second. And there are times where you’ve got to choose in a moment depends on your sense is your children over your new spouse? And that’s a very loaded statement, I know, but it depends on circumstances. But just know that there may be that moment and you and your new spouse or new partner need to really engage in a lot of meaningful conversation. So you’re prepared for it. To work through that, because that’s an allegiance that is hard.
0:24:26 – Speaker 1
It’s almost like getting in the car that first hour, like that transition of bringing in a new spouse. They need a minute the kids to adjust to that and still feel their worth in the relationship.
0:24:36 – Speaker 4
And that’s the biggest thing At the end of the day my kids struggled with do I still matter? Am I still loved? Am I still a priority? That should be your ultimate mission through your divorce is making sure your kids know that, even though the family’s broken up, they still are of first and foremost value to you. They’re still loved.
0:24:55 – Speaker 3
I think you gave us so many great things to think about, like when we are thinking, oh, I want a clean slate or it’s too hard to stay in this relationship. Just I really see now how we take one set of problems and trade them in, do that exchange for another set of problems. So I appreciate your wisdom and your insight and just thanks for being a great dad.
0:25:16 – Speaker 4
And your vulnerability that’s so helpful. Love my kids right? This is life and, as I said, I was also the product of divorce, like you, so I drew on that own personal experience and I wanted to do a lot of little things so that my kids would, in theory, have a different or better outcome from it than I did.
0:25:31 – Speaker 1
Yeah, David, thank you for being on the show today.
0:25:33 – Speaker 4
Thank you, I appreciate it.
0:25:34 – Speaker 2
Thanks for joining us on nextTalk Radio with Mandy and Kim on AM 630, the Word. You are not alone trying to figure out how to parent in this digital world. We are here with practical solutions to help you. Follow us on Facebook, Instagram and Twitter. Find our video series and podcast at nexttalkorg. Are you ready for the nextTalk?
Transcribed by https://podium.page
