0:00:00 – Speaker 1
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0:00:11 – Speaker 2
Welcome to nextTalk Radio with Mandy and Kim On AM630, the word. Mandy is the author of Talk and Kim is the director of nextTalk, a non-profit organization helping parents’ cyber parent through open communication. Follow us on Facebook, instagram and Twitter. Find our free video series and subscribe to our weekly podcast at nextTalk.org. Are you ready for the nextTalk?
0:00:36 – Speaker 3
Today on the show we’re talking about depression. This is a big topic. We’ve brought in an expert to help us. Celeste Inman is here from the Vine Wellness Group. They are no stranger to nextTalk. We’ve partnered with them on things. We’ve spoken with them at events before. Annie and Celeste are owners of the Vine Wellness Group. We have Celeste here today. Celeste, tell us a little bit about you, just in case they haven’t listened to the other shows.
0:01:03 – Speaker 4
We are a mental health and kind of encompassing wellness practice that we like to help with mental health with children as young as age two, all the way up individuals, couples, marital families, group therapy as well. So we kind of try to hit a lot of different populations and provide other services as well. And are you a parent? I am a parent. I have a 11-year-old daughter and a six-year-old son, and then of course also a licensed professional counselor and registered play therapist as well.
0:01:33 – Speaker 3
One of the things I love about you and Annie is that you’re counselors but you’re parents, because it makes a difference, because there’s been so many shifts in our world with social media and the digital world and all of that it does impact the mental health world and I love that you guys are in the thick of both of it. I feel like you guys are such a great resource for our community.
0:01:55 – Speaker 4
Experiencing both sides seeing the clients and then also having it firsthand at home definitely makes a difference and being aware of what we’re doing in the office and the counseling sessions and then also at home with our children.
0:02:07 – Speaker 3
I love that. So I want to dive into depression and spend a lot of time with you on this topic. It’s a topic near and dear to my heart because I never struggled with depression, ever until I was pregnant, and it hit me like a bolt of lightning. I knew something was wrong. I cried all the time, but I had no reason to cry Like I was happy with my life. There wasn’t anything that I thought I want to change, but I was sad all the time. I felt like I was looking at myself trying to fix myself, but couldn’t I remember the feeling and it was so helpless to me. I got help, went to my doctor. I got on medication Good, yeah, I did. I saw two counselors and medication at the same time and then, six months after he was born, I weaned off the medicine. I’ve never needed it again.
That was 10 years ago and I know that’s a some people aren’t like that. Some people struggle with their whole lives. But I feel like I got a taste of what it was like and it was. It was. It was the toughest I would. I would beg to say that it I mean my husband and I. We both would probably agree it was the toughest nine months of our marriage. Like it was because I was totally checked out, like I wanted to die and I didn’t know why and it was. I know it doesn’t. You don’t always have suicidal thoughts, but tell us, because I’m kind of giving my experience but I know it presents in different ways.
0:03:28 – Speaker 4
So tell us it definitely does, and that’s, I think, what an important thing to point out to you. As you were mentioning, you didn’t understand, because you had a happy life. There wasn’t anything you wanted to change. There were things you were happy about, but in that moment you were feeling depressed, and so some people might minimize and say well, why aren’t you happy? You have all these great things going for you.
0:03:47 – Speaker 3
And I had people do that. I had people say oh, it’s hormones. And I’m like this is something different. I’ve been pregnant before. This is different.
0:03:55 – Speaker 4
Chemical imbalances or life situations sometimes can come into play, or if it is just a hereditary thing. There are different causes for depression and then again different levels as well, for depression is the mild, moderate and severe, and depending on how long it’s going on, how persistent or how intense the emotions are and how much of a struggle it is for day to day activities just even getting out of bed yes, that was a big one for me.
0:04:22 – Speaker 3
I mean I would sleep all the time. No energy, no motivation.
0:04:25 – Speaker 4
0:04:26 – Speaker 3
Oh, my sweet mother-in-law would come over and do my lot. I couldn’t do anything, like I was literally off my feet, like knocked off my feet, and it was Awful because I I kept thinking what’s wrong with me, like why don’t I have energy and I can’t. I remember I kept calling my mom and I was like this is my life. Now there’s, I’m never gonna get out of this. I’m never.
0:04:45 – Speaker 4
this is I’m cursed with this now.
0:04:48 – Speaker 3
It felt hopeless. Yes, it feels like there’s no end. And so when people call me and they’re like I think my young kid is struggling with this and I think it’s already presented I get so worried about them because I know that it is a. It’s tough like it’s a real thing.
0:05:05 – Speaker 4
And I think too, one thing you want to make sure with depression if it is going on for a period of time. You don’t want it to be left alone for an extended period of time, because it can get worse and worse. You really get into this deep hole that’s really hard to get out of. It doesn’t always mean that suicide ID. You know that people are suicidal, but you don’t want to go that far.
You don’t want it to go that long, and so you really want to make sure that you’re getting the help that you need and whether, if it is medication, that you want to again have those open conversations, or even with the doctors, whether it’s adults or children, having somebody else to talk to, because medication and Counseling together, having that psychotherapy piece and talking through that, is another important piece that it can really benefit when they work together.
0:05:48 – Speaker 1
I’m so glad you said that, because I meet Mamas all the time, especially that are on medication and are not having the counseling piece or the psychotherapy piece at all, and I feel like that should go hand in hand, right it really?
0:06:01 – Speaker 4
is important. One reason because you can learn those coping skills so that hopefully in time you can’t get off the medication yeah, that you don’t have to be on it. But also another piece is depending upon how low and how severe somebody is with their depression when they start taking the medication, it might clear that fog to where they can start thinking more clearly and they’re feeling that there’s no end in sight. And and that’s when they can really start formulating plans for suicide and carry through with the plan.
0:06:26 – Speaker 2
Because now they have.
0:06:29 – Speaker 1
That’s why they have to be monitored. Yes, that’s what’s important for that. Yeah, you know, when Manny was sharing her experience and she said, this presents in different ways. What are some different ways, especially with younger people, that we should be looking for in our kids or young adults.
0:06:45 – Speaker 4
A lot of times. People always think of the isolation it kind of, you know, removing themselves from things, or the lack of energy. Yeah, having a hard time sleeping but at the same time Wanting to sleep a lot Can’t get good sleep. Changes in appetites, changes in behaviors, but even irritability and agitation, and so they might even appear a little more angry. Instead of so quiet and removed it comes, it could come out as more irritable as well, easily frustrated and things that can cause depression.
0:07:16 – Speaker 3
I mean it’s a spectrum, right. It could be hereditary. It could be something in your environment, it could be the, the culture that you’re living in your home environment, right? I mean it could be lots of different things.
0:07:28 – Speaker 4
Stress overload with school, yeah, even with work and family, and all the all the different weight that you have on you. You just feel like you can’t get through it all. I can’t get it all done, very overwhelmed and just not seeing that end in sight. Yeah, how do we know?
0:07:42 – Speaker 1
I think we’ve all felt that way. Yeah, felt overwhelmed. Yeah, like, oh my goodness, yeah, freaking out or crying or whatever. It might be angry, agitated, more than normal. Mm-hmm, I have been there, my husband has been there. How do we know when we’ve crossed over the line to being really depressed and like we, we need help.
0:07:59 – Speaker 4
I think when it’s definitely gone on for a length of time, several weeks, when you’re seeing a pattern over, at least definitely after two, three weeks a month, this is not changing. This is not getting better. And talking to your kids as well, you know, asking them, noticing it, you know I’m really noticing that you’ve kind of withdrawn a little more. You spend more time in your room and or you don’t talk as much, your behaviors and kind of pointing out the behaviors that you notice that are different from them, they and so kind of asking them are you having fun these days at all or are you? Is there something you’re really unhappy or sad about? Just changing that verbiage and having that open communication with them and Checking in as to how long and you’ve noticed changes in your kids, mm-hmm, and so checking in with yourself, it’s if it’s a period of time or your children and really paying attention. So usually even like a month is probably a good time to start talking with either a medical doctor or seeking out a counselor.
0:08:54 – Speaker 3
And speaking from an older kids perspective, you know, you know my daughter’s getting ready to go into high school and there’s definitely more she you. She’s definitely getting more independent. She spends more time in her room now than she did when she was in fifth grade. That’s normal that I’m still seeing her want to go shopping or one or whatever, but if I’m seeing her go to her room all the time and then not do the other things, right then that’s not there’s.
There’s some normal, normal things that happen. Yes, I and use you know your kid, yes, so be in tune with that. And I would also say to moms and dads know yourself, you know I. I loved what you said at the beginning of the show Don’t let it go too long. I let it go too long. I kept feeling weak. I kept feeling like I’ll be, I’ll be fine, I’ll. I’m a strong person, I’ll get over this.
0:09:43 – Speaker 1
0:09:44 – Speaker 3
Yeah, this is just a well, and I was pregnant so I kept telling myself it’s hormones. I just kept diminishing it and what happened to me was, once I went to the doctor I was so far gone and it takes a minute for the medicine to work. You know you’re not gonna take the medicine and then the next day You’re back to normal, yeah, and so that took six to eight weeks. I had to get into a counselor. I had two that I was seeing at the time, like getting into that was a process, right. So sometimes the help isn’t like right away, right. And so you need to know the warning signs and talk to your doctor Once you notice okay, I’m not dealing with things like I used to.
You know, if you can’t get on the phone with your best friend or call your husband or spouse or whatever and talk through it and feel better, if nothing is helping, right, that normally helps you. That’s a red flag. Two to three weeks is definitely. Yeah, it’s a. It’s a because I let it go like I was like four months the longer you leave it, the longer it is gonna take to get the relief.
interesting, yes, and so, and like you pointed out, medication takes some time because even sometimes to you yes, I had to switch a couple times and I mean I remember telling my husband I don’t want to die, but I’m thinking about suicide and there’s something wrong with that, like there’s something not right with that and I couldn’t explain it. You know, you you’re not in your right mind, right, so you can’t really Communicate the way you normally communicate. And so I would say also, just being aware in your home, you know, with your spouse and your kids, if you’re seeing them off and you can’t talk them off the ledge or help them Like you’d normally would, it’s just a little bit of a red flag, like maybe something’s going on.
0:11:31 – Speaker 4
I think having that compassion and letting them know that you are really concerned about that and you want to try to open up that, that line of communication, it’s gonna be hard for them because having those emotions and feelings sometimes is embarrassing or shameful, yeah, and so those are hard ones to open up about. And so just having that patience with them to sit and listen, and letting them know, day by day too, I’m here for you, I love you, and that you’re reaching out to them and then also pointing out other great things that you see in them, that they’re good at.
Try to help them see some of those positives in the meantime and they’re still gonna struggle with it, but still pointing those you know good things out in the time that you enjoy having with them Right and I think sometimes it’s harder to get the adults to Open up because of the pride thing.
0:12:17 – Speaker 3
Yes, you can kind of crack the kids a little bit more Especially I don’t want to be stereotypical here but men and husbands, you know, sometimes when they are struggling it’s hard for them to admit they’re struggling right they’re supposed to be strong.
0:12:32 – Speaker 4
They’re supposed to be taking care of the family, and if I’m feeling these things, then they’re seeing that maybe they can’t, and so it. You know the judgment. They’re afraid of the judgment for anybody.
0:12:42 – Speaker 3
Well, you know, we recently did a midlife crisis show because it keeps coming back. Absolutely, you know moms and dads are struggling with these issues and you know the day-to-day of Grinds and all the responsibilities on us and everything coming at us. It can create anxiety and, if that’s left unchecked, go into a depression. They definitely can coincide very often.
0:13:02 – Speaker 1
That can be really a Bad deal, absolutely if you’re just now tuning in, this is nextTalk radio at 2 pm On a m6 30. The word nextTalk radio is listener supported. Everything we do here at our nonprofit to keep kids safe online is accomplished. It through your donations to support our organization. Go to nextTalk org and click on give. Today we’re talking with Celeste in men from the valiant wellness group. We are tackling the huge issue of depression, which one of the first things that comes to mind for me as we’re talking through this is the Stigma yeah, but a lot of times associated with depression and medication and getting help in general, like going to a psychotherapist or a therapist or a Doctor.
That alone is a big hill to climb for a lot of people, and, and I mean sadly enough, there are people who feel like you should not take medication or you should not get help. This is just if you. I’ve even heard people say, if you Are a good person or if you believe in God, then you should not believe in depression like it is.
0:14:01 – Speaker 2
Oh, no, I and that fires me oh.
0:14:05 – Speaker 1
Well, it does. It gets me to the core, because it’s a chemical imbalance. And then there’s hereditary issues that you need to deal with and all kinds of life strains, right, and so I think that’s one thing I want to make sure we we just really, really focus on. Today is something that I want them to hear from you that it is not something to be ashamed of and it is something that you can get help for.
0:14:28 – Speaker 4
Definitely, and medication.
I understand a lot of people and parents have concerns with medications for different reasons, a multitude of reasons, and there’s things to definitely try that are more conservative.
Sure, so the sooner that you get in, when you start seeing the signs, then maybe you can not have to use medication because you can start using those coping skills or the self talk or different techniques that you learn through counseling and giving that hope back that maybe they don’t have to. Or changing your nutrition and having the physical activity or finding ways of better sleep. Yes, there’s different things that can change, that can possibly help that if it’s not so severe, but once it gets to such a severe state, medication is almost really needed to help pull you up to where that you can be more motivated and functional, to use those coping skills or change some of those behaviors that you might need to, and so that’s a lot of times where medication is so important to really help so that you can have that lift and that take, that edge off, or just to be able to get day to day things done.
0:15:28 – Speaker 1
Yeah, I’m, you know. I’m glad you said that because I think that’s important to present that other side. There’s been times when I have struggled and thought am I depressed, like what’s going on? And I went to see my doctor, who she was an OBGYN and she’s great at just really validating those feelings and being honest about all the options. And she said first, for a couple of weeks, let’s try doing what you can control. She’s like let’s change your diet. I want you to get out there and exercise. I want you to get out in the sun every day. I want you to take some things off your plate. Let’s do that for a couple of weeks and then I’m gonna have you come back in and we’re gonna have this talk again. And I came back in and I was feeling great and it was just I needed someone to pull me out of that rut and remind me like you have to take care of this body of yours.
you can’t just eat chocolate all day long and go on two hours a day. You really have to do some things here to help your chemical imbalance you do balance.
So that’s the other side of that. Yes, that worked in that situation, but I have seen many people in my family struggle with depression and not be able to find relief from doing things on their own, and medication helped them turn that corner, to come back to life essentially, and no shame in that game, you know. That’s why I say all the time and I’m just so thankful that we have those resources.
0:16:42 – Speaker 3
Well, and there are some people that need the medication for their entire life because it’s a chemical imbalance.
0:16:48 – Speaker 4
There’s nothing wrong with that at all.
0:16:50 – Speaker 3
I just want to hear. I want moms and dads to hear you are not weak. If you need medication or counseling for depression, it’s like having high cholesterol. Exactly this is.
0:17:00 – Speaker 4
We need to get the stigma right off of this because you have something wrong with your heart, you’re going to take care of it with medication, absolutely. You have something else with another medical situation, you’re going to use that medication to help take care of it. It’s the same thing with mental health as well the brain.
0:17:14 – Speaker 3
sometimes we need that medication to help just a little extra Well and we didn’t mention the medication piece and the anxiety show that we did. But this all ties in. I mean there’s medicine for anxiety too. It’s all kind of the same mental health. Right. It is In the fact of try all the different things. Be open to that. I feel like God can heal using so many different avenues. I know for me he did One thing I struggled with.
Okay, so I went through my depression and I weaned off the medication and got better and I know not everybody, you know, does that but after I got off of it and I felt great and I felt like myself again. But one thing I want to say as I’m talking about this I had a friend tell me. She said you’re going to start seeing glimpses of yourself again and I’ll never forget it. I was unloading a dishwasher one day, balling my eyes out, and I went to put a cup up into the cupboard, the cabinet, and I felt joy and I remember thinking a glimpse of myself came back just now. It did. And that great feeling to have in that moment, yes, and it became more regular. You know I would see it more often as the healing process came with me. You know I felt I could find joy in things again, just little things.
But then once I walked through it and I was off the medicine, I was overridden with anxiety that I was gonna have depression again. Yes, like for a year. I would wake up in cold sweats oh my gosh, it’s coming again. I can’t walk through that again. I cannot do that whole thing again and I would have anxiety.
And my counselor gave me the best tool and I still think about it today. She said think of it like you’re walking down a hallway and all the doors are closed. And she said the the depression door has been opened. You know what’s behind that door, and so it creates anxiety in you because you don’t want to walk through that again. And she said I mentally want you to picture yourself shutting it, shut the door and you’re gonna shut it. And I know that doesn’t help in everybody’s situation. But for me, something that was, I think, brought on through pregnancy and all the different hormones and the chemical, I think it just sent my body into a spiral. That really helped me because with anxiety that I was just so afraid I was gonna go back into the depression, right, and when you’re that low and you are having those thoughts. You’re like I can’t go back there once you’re feeling better again.
0:19:41 – Speaker 4
You don’t wanna miss out on that joy. You don’t wanna be in that dark, dark place at all.
It’s not a good place to be in. Another thing that I wanted to just mention that’s really important as well is if you have a friend or with your children, when you’re talking to them and being very compassionate, non-judgmental, ask them if they’ve had any thoughts of hurting themselves at all. It’s so important. I know a lot of people are afraid to ask those questions because they’re afraid that maybe if I ask that, it’s gonna take them to that place and make them go there, and that’s not the case. What’s more important is you know how severe. Where are they at? Have they thought of a plan? Ask them if they thought of a plan of hurting themselves. What is that plan?
0:20:23 – Speaker 2
What does it look like?
0:20:25 – Speaker 4
And if they have, when was the last time they thought of it, how quickly and how? What kind of help treatment do they need? Is it right now? Do they need to be at a hospital, or do they need to be in treatment Because you wanna make sure that they stay safe? You care about them, of course.
0:20:41 – Speaker 1
I think a lot of people are waiting for the invitation. They’re waiting for the invitation to open up about it because they think nobody sees me, nobody knows what I’m struggling with, nobody understands how hurt.
0:20:50 – Speaker 4
I am I’m afraid how they’re gonna react.
0:20:52 – Speaker 1
They don’t know, I don’t wanna bring it up, and they’re waiting for that invitation to say like, yes, I need help, I need help. And so you’re right. I think that’s so good to just be brave enough to do that.
0:21:02 – Speaker 3
And I would say, as a mom or a dad, if your kid is saying you know, telling you that they do have a plan or they have thought about harming themselves, you gotta stay calm. You can’t gasp, you can’t. Oh my gosh, oh my gosh. We gotta get you to a hospital.
We can’t you can’t respond that way. You need to be calm. Reserve your emotions, listen, figure out where they are. Then you can leave and exit and go into the other room and call people and figure out your plan of action. But that remaining calm is important because it’s gonna create more anxiety and more.
0:21:34 – Speaker 4
You know, alarm them and then, knowing what? Oh my gosh, what have I done to the family now?
0:21:38 – Speaker 3
Or what’s wrong with me, right? They’re immediately gonna think and nothing’s wrong with them. They’re just struggling with this issue a medical issue, like you said, just like a heart issue, just like having a broken arm. We gotta get this fixed, right? Yeah?
0:21:50 – Speaker 1
I think another thing that we can bring into this conversation is that we can’t necessarily like the things that we talk about a lot at Next Top, like pornography or whatever.
We can’t necessarily prevent depression from happening, but it is okay to talk about it with your kids, even your young kids, in an age-appropriate way, to prepare them for those weird emotions or hard emotions that they may find in themselves or their friends before it happens, so that they recognize it when it happens and so that you’re able to have that conversation easier if they go start going down that path. There’s been times when I pointed things out to my kids about my own behavior or about Daddy’s behavior when he’s going through a difficult thing and I’ll say, man, you know I’m not handling that very well and I’m feeling like this right now and you know I’m gonna pray about it or I’m gonna go outside and exercise to get out of this funk, like I’m verbally walking myself through it and talking them through kind of those first responses to those emotions, to give them some tools and information about hard topics being prepared for it if it ever comes up either with their friends or for themselves.
0:22:50 – Speaker 4
How do I identify it? Kind of right, right, really important.
0:22:54 – Speaker 1
Are there any other tips that you would give to parents as far as things that we can do with the signs or avoiding judging them, things that we can really keep in the back of our mind with dealing with our kids or people around us who might be struggling?
0:23:06 – Speaker 4
I think one other thing that’s important is helping to kind of put that hope back in again, trying to keep things positive where you can and helping them to also be included in part of the family, keeping them involved and engaged and giving them things to do around the house.
You’re a part of this family, you’re important, you have a purpose. The more that they are involved and engaged with those kinds of things at home and they feel included, that also kind of helps take a little nudge off of the kind of maybe a little bit of prevention, possibly because they are feeling more connected and purposeful. Whereas if they’re not feeling as connected and engaged sometimes they do start to have those negative self-talks and doubts and am I really or are they? Am I needed, am I, is there a purpose for me, or am I really? They start to question things and parents can constantly reassure and just remind them how much they’re loved and needed. But that’s so important. But then too, if you are having conflicts and when they’re in a negative state, they’re going to try to kind of be combative kind of yeah, and more irritable and they’re gonna push those limits a little bit more and really kind of test things and you’re gonna wanna choose your battles more wisely.
Is this something we really need to get into or is this one that we can kind of, you know, ignore? Not ignore for now, but you know, set your firm limit and this is where it stops and this is what you know is expected, and just kind of move on and don’t continue the engagement. Just put it at an end, at the very beginning.
0:24:34 – Speaker 3
Maybe have a little bit more grace if you know they’re struggling with depression or you know they’re in this negative light and know your boundaries, so know when it’s time to be like okay, I’m not, I can’t allow this anymore.
0:24:46 – Speaker 4
My grace is in me this is a value that we’re not gonna go beyond. But, yes, I can be more graceful right now, just giving them that extension of some of that easiness.
0:24:59 – Speaker 3
Be clear, but compassionate. Kind of take into consideration that they’re having a hard time processing right now. Yeah Right, it was great having you on the show today. Tell us again where we can find you. If somebody wants to come visit you at your office, you can visit our website at thevinewellnesscom, and our office phone number is 210-490-4419. And we’ll tag you on our social media too, so our followers can go follow you guys, yes, thank you.
0:25:30 – Speaker 1
Thank you so much. Appreciate you being on the show.
0:25:33 – Speaker 2
Thanks for joining us on nextTalk Radio with Mandy and Kim on AM630, the Word. You are not alone, trying to figure out how to parent in this digital world. We are here with practical solutions to help you. Follow us on Facebook, Instagram and Twitter. Find our free video series and podcast at nextTalk.org. Are you ready for the nextTalk?
Transcribed by https://podium.page