0:00:00 – Speaker 1
nextTalk, sponsored by nextTalk.org, contains content of a mature nature. Parental guidance is advised. Welcome to nextTalk Radio with Mandy and Kim every Saturday at 10 am on AM 630, the word Mandy is the author of Talk and I’m the director of nextTalk, a non-profit organization helping parents cyber parent. Follow us on Facebook, instagram and Twitter, find videos and subscribe to our weekly podcast at nextTalk.org. Are you ready for the nextTalk Today?
0:00:35 – Speaker 2
we’re going to be talking about stress and anxiety for our teens. That can sometimes lead to self-harming like cutting, and we have a really special guest here today. Her name is Annie Veers and she is a counselor she is.
0:00:50 – Speaker 1
She’s an amazing licensed professional counselor the real deal, the real deal and a licensed marriage and family therapist with 17 years experience working with adolescents, adults, couples and families. She’s the co-owner and senior therapist of the Vine Wellness Group, a mental health and wellness private practice in San Antonio, texas, that serves their clients from a holistic, faith-based approach to healthier living. I love that. I mean, that’s just everything we want. Annie has a passion for building stronger family foundations, whether it be in a traditional therapy or community outreach opportunities. She’s been married for 18 years and is mom of three kiddos, age 15, 12 and 8.
0:01:27 – Speaker 2
Welcome.
0:01:28 – Speaker 3
Thank you so much for having me. Yes, you know.
0:01:31 – Speaker 2
Annie and I met a couple years ago when I was writing my book and some mommies had been telling me, annie and Celeste of the Vine Wellness Group, they’re great counselors and I was like, well, I need some counselors to help me write this book Like. I had to go ask them some opinions about some things we just need counseling.
0:01:46 – Speaker 1
You know what? We just all need a counselor.
0:01:47 – Speaker 2
Let’s just say it, we have all got our crazy going on. And so I sat down with you guys and it was just we were on the same page about so many things, about what I wanted to address in the book, and you were, I know. One of the things that I came to you was I said you know, moms on the front line are telling me that cutting is a big deal. Right, and is it Like? What are you seeing?
0:02:09 – Speaker 3
So oftentimes you’ll see, we work with a lot of adolescents, teenagers, Celeste, the other co-owner. She works with younger kids even, and we do see a lot of kids struggling and coping in negative ways, which can be that self-harming behavior. Specifically, it can look like cutting, it can look like scratching, it can look like hair pulling, anything that’s a, or even like head pounding, things that are just harmful to our bodies.
0:02:40 – Speaker 2
So what are some things that you see and I know there’s lots of different factors here, but what are some of the main reasons why kids self-harm?
0:02:49 – Speaker 3
Well, it’s to deal with stress, it’s typically not something that is a sign of suicidal behavior, like most parents or people will assume. It’s actually a coping mechanism, a negative coping mechanism, and they’re dealing with stressors, just like all of us are, and they get overwhelmed and they turn to something like this. And those stressors can be anything from overwhelming school schedules being over-scheduled in general, with too many activities, no downtime. It could be big fears like fear of failure. Then we see a lot of perfectionists and overachievers, which can be in low doses very good it’s for motivation but not so good when it’s overwhelming.
0:03:37 – Speaker 2
Yeah, yeah.
0:03:39 – Speaker 1
You know I think a lot of times parents are thinking oh, it’s normal stress, you know oh that happens. And then maybe they’re noticing some of these things or they don’t know it all. I mean, what do you find most?
0:03:51 – Speaker 3
common. We have some families come in where the parents knew about it, coming in where they saw that their child had been coping in these ways. Other parents didn’t know until the child started therapy and it was revealed sessions in. Sometimes the children aren’t honest with us, but we keep asking and keep our eyes on those types of questions and once it’s revealed then we have conversations. Yeah, we talk about it.
0:04:20 – Speaker 2
Yeah, you know one thing that you said early on and we’ve talked about this when I was writing my book, because I was doing a lot of research about cutting, the link between cutting and suicide, and you said typically it doesn’t mean they’re suicidal.
0:04:32 – Speaker 3
Not all the time.
0:04:33 – Speaker 2
Yeah. What I like to tell parents, though, is and correct me if I’m wrong is that it’s a red flag, absolutely, and so it’s a. It’s a. It’s a sign that something is wrong that you need to deal with, and if that is left untreated or swept under the rug, it could lead to suicide, because the underlying problem is not being addressed. Right Is that? That’s absolutely right Anything.
0:04:56 – Speaker 3
I mean, if you see your child is attempting to run away and attempting to do you know these are all signs of of that they’re hurting, they’re in pain and and seeing something like cutting or hair pulling and things like that. You do want to stop and address it and figure out what’s underneath it all. Yeah, is cutting Trendy year? Yeah, we’re seeing a lot more of it, and I think that’s also another common misconception is parents will either have kind of two extreme responses either a oh Ever, that’s what everybody’s doing these days, no big deal or, you know, this is something that’s there. Their suicidal and and not necessarily the case in either direction, but they are red flags. We do need to look into it a little bit more and Figure out what’s underneath it. Something emotional is going on.
0:05:44 – Speaker 2
Yeah, we need to figure out what is causing them to act out in these.
0:05:48 – Speaker 3
Ways, because they can be attention seeking behaviors. Yes, yeah, but that’s a much lower percentage. Yeah, and even if they are attention seeking, then we need to kind of look at that too. Yeah, yeah, what’s going on?
0:06:01 – Speaker 1
Yeah well, I only say that because I know the rise in social media, certain behaviors have become More common, more talked about and more talks about, yeah, and people videoing and Doing live expressions of these behaviors, and so I was wondering if you were seeing that in the practical sense of your practice.
0:06:18 – Speaker 3
Yes, and I’ll ask teens you know what sites are they on? Which ones are they attracted more to? Whether it’s tumbler, or sometimes even on Pinterest, there’s a dark side of Pinterest.
0:06:28 – Speaker 2
Ladies, I’ve seen that. I have heard about that. Yeah, it’s articles about that. Born on Pinterest. It’s out there.
0:06:34 – Speaker 3
It’s out there and and there’s lots of tutorials and lots of things that kids can be watching and looking at, and and but. But underneath it all, it’s a way that the cutting and the pain aspect of it is that they’re reaching more for an, a physical expression of pain, rather than the emotional expression. Because if the kids don’t know how to emotionally express in a healthy way, then Then bringing in the physical aspect Seems to be something that they’re attracted to.
0:07:06 – Speaker 2
Yeah, or makes more sense, mm-hmm, you know, to take away the emotional pain and then when people are doing it at school, a lot of them and they’re posting about it Right and it becomes, then Normalize this is what you do when you’re stressed out, then that is why we need to be talking to them preventively.
Yes, I encourage parents before they get to middle school. You know it can be probably a conversation in fifth grade that you have. It could happen earlier, but mostly it happens starting in middle school, I believe. Is that right, annie?
0:07:37 – Speaker 3
It does. It can start. It can start earlier, depending on the behaviors, because Celeste sees it with her younger ones as well. Yeah, but it’s, it is something. It’s a conversation to have and I think parents get concerned about having that conversation because they’re afraid that if they talk about it, that they’re giving their child that idea. If they haven’t come across it already, yeah, when not?
the case, most of the time. It really is that Lot the kids have already talked about it, they’ve been exposed to it. Maybe they’ve heard a conversation just in passing Lots of different ways that they’re exposed to it that we need to and especially girls.
0:08:13 – Speaker 2
Yeah, girls, with the cutting it’s more, it’s more of a trend with girls. I mean it’s not just isolated to girls, but we’re seeing it more right.
0:08:20 – Speaker 3
It’s, it’s. You know, girls aren’t just that much more of an emotional creature anyway. But not to leave out the boys, because they as well.
0:08:29 – Speaker 2
Yeah, but they express themselves in different ways. Yeah, absolutely.
0:08:32 – Speaker 3
Yeah, so it’s. It’s really important to to have these discussions of. There are certain ways that kids cope, and this is one of them and that’s not a good one. Yeah, and finding out what are your kids coping tools? Yeah, what do they use to?
0:08:44 – Speaker 2
cope Well, you know. And what I found in having this conversation, you know I have an older daughter and a younger son. Of course, with my daughter We’ve had the conversations because she’s in middle school and she’s right, and you know what we bought the through, things that you know have happened in middle school. But with my son, you know, modeling this, like when I get stressed out and sometimes, you know, I I call it crazy mom. We know that that’s what I call it, you know that I will.
My voice will be, you know, louder than typical or I’ll have a certain tone, but I have found that that’s a great opportunity to say you know mommy’s coping with stress in these ways. Some people cope with stress in these ways, right, and it’s all unhealthy Like. We all need to learn how to deal with our stuff and when we get stressed out, we need to be able to process it logically.
0:09:31 – Speaker 3
Yes, and trying to do it when you’re not already mad or upset or your child is mad or upset. You do it in a way, like you said, you bring it, you kind of broach the subject from just a calm, cool and collected, just conversation. Yeah, and people say I wait for the right time to have these conversations.
0:09:49 – Speaker 1
Don’t never the right time yeah.
0:09:52 – Speaker 3
You just, I’ve had them in the car, I’ve had them around making dinner, I’ve had them at any time. Yes and yeah. He just bring up. This is how I cope. I’m wondering. This is what I see you do, but are there anything else, anything that you do that I don’t know about? Now, let’s say you have that conversation.
0:10:09 – Speaker 1
Awesome, Well done good. But what if you get some answers You’re not ready for? What would you suggest for mom and dad, because it’s so easy. If I mean I’m taking myself into that position, I can only imagine if my daughter or sentence said well, I also cut myself how that would feel inside in that immediate moment.
0:10:28 – Speaker 3
Absolutely it’s it. It’s scary, and I and I think the first thing that parents tend to do when they hear this information that they’re not expecting is they do panic, and of course you want to go that way, but we’ve. But In order for them to continue to share, we’ve got to stay as calm as possible, even if you’re freaking out on the inside. You know, put on, put on that facade for a second, yeah, and then. And then you can freak out later if you need to, but but giving them that platform to know that it’s a safe place to talk and open up, and Because if they don’t, if we start freaking out, they feel like they’ve done something wrong and will not continue to share yeah, so we want to keep that line open.
0:11:10 – Speaker 2
So I’m just gonna get really real here for a moment. You know, when my kids maybe do something that takes me off guard. You know I’m thinking about anything, anything they do, uh-huh, something, they say that’s not right, or they do something. I Immediately put the reflection on me. Uh-huh, like, I feel like such a bad parent. I should have had this conversation with them. I how important is to to step out of that in this moment and focus just on your child.
0:11:36 – Speaker 3
Highly important. It’s because we all have our own stuff. Yeah, our parents, us as parents, we deal with and we need to deal with our own stuff, but at the right time. Yeah, um, you know. So in that moment it is about your child. Yeah, it’s about them just trying to get information, trying to find a direction and Needing that. Level-headedness is really important and I know that’s ideal, easier said than done, but as much as possible, and then we can deal with whatever we need to deal with right at a later time because if I were to respond in a way, if my child were cutting, and I were to respond in a way of Um, what will people think of us?
0:12:15 – Speaker 2
or what are you doing? You’re misrepresenting our family. That adds more stress and pressure, which then is going to perpetuate the cycle.
0:12:22 – Speaker 3
Am I right? Right and when? When the younger kids hear that, then they start to know Exactly what they need to talk about and what they don’t need to be talking about. Yeah and the older kiddos that hear that just get really angry. Yeah, I bet, because now they’re saying something and then they’re asking for help, yeah, and they shut down. They just get angry.
0:12:42 – Speaker 2
Yeah, mm-hmm. If you’re just now tuning in, this is nextTalk radio with Mandy and Kim every Saturday at 10 am On a m 6 30. The word nextTalk radio is listener supported. Everything we do at nextTalk To keep our kids safe online is accomplished through donations to support our organization. Please go to next top org and click on give.
0:13:03 – Speaker 1
Today we’re talking with Annie Viers, a licensed professional counselor and marriage and family therapists. We’re talking about self-harming. We’re talking about cutting. What do you do when your kid Comes to you, which we we pray that they do right? Open up to you. That would be the first step, they’ve told you. Now, maybe you were able to hold it together.
0:13:22 – Speaker 2
Remain, calm, remain calm focus on the child.
0:13:25 – Speaker 3
Yes, my house of a failure.
0:13:26 – Speaker 1
We feel absolutely that’s the process we’re gonna have to work through, or even the other side of that and you know it’s hard to say these things, but I’m kind of opposite than you when those things happen. My first thought is you know better, you should have known. We’ve already talked about this.
0:13:43 – Speaker 3
Right, we’ve had this conversation. You know that’s not okay. Yes, it’s harmful.
0:13:47 – Speaker 1
Yes, and so that goes through my head and my son will say you don’t have to say it, mom, it’s just on your face.
0:13:55 – Speaker 3
And so he knows I have the look. I do too. It’s like I have been told yes, I’ve been told I have the look and I have the voice.
0:14:01 – Speaker 2
Like don’t do the voice, mom. You have the look, I have the look.
0:14:04 – Speaker 1
You have the evil, look I do they’re like don’t make the face, mom, don’t do the voice mom Cause my voice will get real low and slow. So I don’t have to say anything and they feel a judgment there.
And so I think, multi-layered, we have to rethink the way we respond and then if you mess up, I’m always if I mess up, I’m always right away saying you know what that was about. That was about mommy Right, and that was mommy feeling a certain way. And I have younger ones and so thankfully they’re still pretty forgiving and easy going. But you know, we have to work on that because these big issues are coming.
0:14:40 – Speaker 3
Yeah, well, and I think you said you have the little ones that are pretty forgiving. You know the one thing that I’ll find in my daughter because that’s one thing we’ve talked for years about all these topics and now she’s a sophomore in, and if I go that route where I don’t have a poker face, I mean I’d, it’s so hard, everybody knows that. Yeah, and so she’ll call me out on that too. Yeah, if we’re having a conversation she’ll go mm-mm, there’s that face and I’ll go, oh, cause I don’t even know it.
0:15:09 – Speaker 1
Yeah, and it’s a practice. I think I’m doing good yeah With my words, but my face is not matching.
0:15:14 – Speaker 3
I’m a therapist I should be. You know, I do this with clients, you know, and so. But when you’re emotionally attached to something, yes, and you’re in that moment with your child where they’re in pain, well, you’re going to have some sort of expression. We’re not robots, yeah, but you know it’s something you keep that open to and saying you know what I’m having a hard time. This is your. Like you said, this is about me right now, but I want this to be about you. Yeah, tell me more.
0:15:39 – Speaker 1
I’m finding that asking my kids to help me really helps. Yes, you know, I’ll tell them like Let them lead you. Yes, that’s a great tip.
0:15:47 – Speaker 3
Yeah, tell us what that looks like you know, sometimes it’s just us being quiet, yeah, and you know.
0:15:54 – Speaker 2
We’re only listening.
0:15:54 – Speaker 3
Yeah, and again, that was something my daughter reinforces every now and then, even when we’re not in a discussion, she’ll say you know, I know you just want to fix it. And I’m like, oh no, yeah, what am I doing? Because I wanted to not feel that way. Yes, you know, it’s my emotional thing, and so I get stuck in that habit sometimes too, and I try to be mindful of it, but sometimes it doesn’t work out so well. But you know, I just have to step back and then go, you’re right, you’re right, just sit with them. Yeah.
0:16:26 – Speaker 1
Just be present.
0:16:27 – Speaker 3
Sit with them, be present, and you’re not gonna have an answer, you’re not gonna make them feel better. Yeah, just kind of feel their pain. Yes, I get it Reflective, like be more reflective, that’s it. That’s a good one.
0:16:39 – Speaker 2
Meet them where they are too, Just like meet them on their level and it’s really hard not to try and fix it.
0:16:44 – Speaker 3
Oh, I know.
0:16:45 – Speaker 2
It’s so hard, but I love that to just be silent, be still, Even if they’re not talking.
0:16:52 – Speaker 3
Yeah, like, don’t feel the silence. That’s such great advice. I spent 30 minutes with my son outside the other day just sitting and being silent and it was killing me. Everything in my body was wanting to talk, but he just needed silence.
0:17:04 – Speaker 1
Yeah, it’s interesting you say that because I know sometimes my husband will say sometimes men just want to be in the same space as their woman.
0:17:11 – Speaker 3
Oh, I like it, just in the same space.
0:17:13 – Speaker 1
We don’t have to talk. We just want to be in the same space and I think boys. I notice my two boys sometimes will play basketball or will be, and they don’t want to talk, they just want to be in the same space for me, and so that’s really good advice, putting that all together and then I think, like you said, being able to explain your reaction, and my husband will react more with anger because he’s a protector.
Absolutely many will yes yes, and I noticed it went really far for our kids. Recently he got angry about something and he came back around and he explained to them, even though they’re little. This anger was about how much I love you and wanted to protect you when I couldn’t in that moment, and I’m scared, and I’m scared, yes, and I’m overwhelmed. And it helps them see in their friends and in their own community like what that looks like, how it’s different for everybody, and then in themselves too.
0:18:03 – Speaker 2
Talking through kind of everybody’s emotions as this thing plays out in your family, so we’ve kind of covered this. So we have a child who’s self-harming, we’re gonna not freak out. We’re gonna remain calm. What are the next steps? What do we do? How do we focus on our child and get them the help they?
0:18:19 – Speaker 3
need. I think it’s assessing the situation and that might be just you continuing to see how much you can talk with your child if they’re really not wanting to talk or they’re not opening up. Call for reinforcement, Whether that’s a pastor or a youth director or a professional counselor, whatever that looks like, to be able to really help assess what’s going on if the child’s really just not opening up.
0:18:45 – Speaker 2
Cause we’re trying to get to. Why are you cutting the why behind it, Underneath what’s underneath all this?
0:18:50 – Speaker 3
Because they’re not just gonna do it typically, just to do it.
0:18:52 – Speaker 1
Yeah.
0:18:54 – Speaker 3
And so, yeah, we wanna find out what their struggle is and be able to address that Cause.
0:19:00 – Speaker 2
That is how we’re gonna prevent them for maybe even thinking about suicide or going down that path is. We’ve got this red flag alert. Let’s address it and figure out what’s going on.
0:19:10 – Speaker 3
And in so many kids these days struggle with the lack of emotional regulation. They don’t know how to regulate, they don’t know how to identify emotions number one and they don’t know how to regulate them. We have adults that have this issue as well.
0:19:24 – Speaker 1
But I was gonna say do you have an appointment at two o’clock? Can I come lay on your couch and you want a group?
0:19:33 – Speaker 2
How about?
0:19:33 – Speaker 3
that yeah, I think we can all struggle with that, but lately what we’re seeing, specifically with the young adults and adolescents, is just a lack of emotional IQ.
Just don’t know. I think there’s been a lot of things that contribute to that, and I could go into a whole rabbit, a whole that way. But we just don’t have that with a lot of our kiddos, and so they don’t know how to express, they don’t even know what to express, and then once they have all these feelings jumbled up inside, they don’t know how to regulate it. And so cutting in, those impulsive types of responses tend to be. Well, it’s like drug and alcohol use and all these different things that kids will turn to and young adults will turn to because it’s quicker.
0:20:26 – Speaker 1
Yeah.
0:20:27 – Speaker 3
Well.
0:20:28 – Speaker 1
I’m glad that you said that, because there are gonna be some kids who will open up to their parents, and many that will not. And many that will not. So you get to that point and maybe they say I’m cutting because this, this and this. What are some suggestions for walking them through? Alternatives to having that emotional IQ Like what do you do with those feelings?
0:20:49 – Speaker 3
It’s talking about your own, Mandy, Like what you were saying earlier, you can mention to your kids. This is what I do. This is maybe I have a hard time identifying what I’m feeling at times, but we have to at least start from the bottom and build a foundation of knowing what we’re feeling, and we’re not taking enough time. These days, Everything’s so fast, Everything you know. Social media it’s just boom, boom, boom, boom, boom, and it’s not slowing down enough to identify what’s going on with your emotions.
0:21:17 – Speaker 2
You know, the other day I was having a really stressful day, very overwhelmed, you know. And what do I do? I get on Facebook Because I’m like I need some downtime you know, but I’m not processing what’s really happening. I’m going and then I’m taking in more stuff. That’s even stressing me out more, because then I’m watching the hurricane. And then that’s building on my stress and by the end of it I’m like feeling.
You’re spiraling instead of and so I have empathy for our kids, because if I’m, you know, I didn’t grow up in this era. I grew without phones. I was taught to kind of figure out my emotions. I had to, you know we did, but now it’s like I’ve reverted to this way of let me just Chill on Facebook for a little bit, and it’s more anxiety.
0:22:00 – Speaker 3
It’s a lot of distraction. It’s. When I ask about coping skills with all ages, most of what I hear back is I they use forms of distraction which can be good temporarily, but it’s not a long-term solution. That’s good. You got to be able to identify and learn to express them and giving kids some physical outlets. You know when we’re angry and we’re wound up.
0:22:25 – Speaker 1
Yeah we need a physical outlet, yes, and.
0:22:27 – Speaker 3
And cutting and headbanging, and pulling, and you know, all these harmful behaviors Can be physical in nature. But we need to switch those out and find other ways for a healthy for healthy.
Okay, yeah, that’s good tip. So there’s different ways. You can kind of, you know, brainstorm with your child about different ways and maybe we as parents aren’t really good with coping either. Yeah, maybe we do distract and we do get into and we don’t take time to really process our own stuff. You know we, we can learn to what do you think are just a couple of basic tips.
0:23:02 – Speaker 1
Maybe you could throw out to parents on Ideas that they can give their kid about how to process those emotions.
0:23:08 – Speaker 2
Yeah, because it’s gonna look differently for every child.
0:23:11 – Speaker 3
It is maybe like for younger ones, and then middle-aged and because you have, you’re gonna have internal processors and external processors. Yeah, I’m an external one. I like to talk.
0:23:23 – Speaker 2
And all the hoods and you’re like no, thank you.
0:23:26 – Speaker 3
It’s. So, yeah, you have different kinds of people and what works, you know, when I have anyone in my office, I can’t just sit and give them a list of sure, yeah, of things I mean I could, but Of list of things that work for me, yeah, because it’s may not work for them. So we really sit and identify what they enjoy doing, what works for them. Are they in sports? Are they in music? Are they in? What kind of brain do they have going on? You know, assess that First and see, well, do they like to write Some?
0:23:58 – Speaker 1
really good writers yeah.
0:24:00 – Speaker 3
Yeah, you see. Poetry, you see, you know. Yeah, books, you see, lots of things come out of people’s struggles and pain, that’s so true. But sports, maybe they want to go outside and you know, throw some hoops or Kick the ball against the, the fence or things like that, like if you notice your child is struggling or not, yeah, you’d say, go outside. You know, those are the things that you can start to identify, to practice.
0:24:26 – Speaker 1
Great because, so you know, maybe ask watching them when they’re little, noticing Mm-hmm they’re outlets that naturally occur and tendencies. And then, when they’re older, just having that conversation with them, like what do you love to do, what makes you happy, what makes you feel stress-free?
0:24:40 – Speaker 3
Does that make sense? Yeah, and just being able to expand on some of those things that they enjoy doing. But sometimes it’s a struggle to come up with them. I’m making that sound easy, but it can. It can be a challenge to identify what they are, especially when the child has already gotten to the point where they’re really shut down. Yeah, they don’t want to have this conversation of coping skills. Yeah, you know that’s it. It can be a struggle anyway, but that’s where, if you’re not really getting anywhere with these conversations, then you may want to connect with somebody who knows how to really Get that conversation going and if our families are in San Antonio and they want to use your counseling service.
0:25:16 – Speaker 2
Vine wellness group.
0:25:17 – Speaker 3
Mm-hmm right and the website is the vine wellness comm and you’re on Facebook. We are on Facebook and Twitter and we’re gaining presence on that.
0:25:28 – Speaker 1
You’re busy having.
0:25:32 – Speaker 2
Thank you so much for the invaluable advice today you’re welcome.
0:25:34 – Speaker 1
Thanks for having me and thank you for joining us on nextTalk, ready with Mandy and Kim Every Saturday at 10 am On a m6 30 the word. You are not alone trying to figure out how to parent in this digital world. We’re here with practical solutions to help you. Follow us on Facebook, instagram and Twitter, find videos and subscribe to our weekly podcast at Nextalkorg. Are you ready for the nextTalk?
Transcribed by https://podium.page
